In desperate need of some advice

[24mum]

This is my first post so please bear with me.

My 14y/o daughter has been permanently excluded from school for poor behaviour.

Prior to the exclusion, my DD had got herself into situations where she got into trouble for defiant behaviour and not following instructions. And then to top it off, her grades dropped (from an A to an D student) because of this. It got to the point where she spent more time out of class (in isolation) than in lessons. She was out of a particular subject for six months and the school never felt fit to inform me of this!

I had tried (since yr7) to get her out as I felt the school wasn't the best fit for her, but the school kept giving bad references so she was unable to move.

Don't get me wrong, my DD is no angel. She did get herself in situations where she got on the teachers radar for the wrong reasons, but I felt alone with the school trying to turn the situation from negative to positive.

I know there is nothing I can do at this point, but are there any London based schools that don't have serious problems that would consider taking on such a case during this very delicate time?

Thanks.

Poor you - you must be so distressed ... hugs to you ...

What is the council saying about alternatives? They have a legal obligation to place your daughter in a school - maybe they could mediate these 'bad references' your DD is getting from this last school ... they at least will have seen this situation before and probably worse!

To be permanently excluded must be very bad behaviour & as I understand that schools in London are over subscribed it seems likely that your daughter will have to accept which ever school will take her. I hope that you make sure she realises that she will need to be an angel & to work hard to get her grades back up to scratch. Do not make excuses for her or rubbish the school or she will start her new one thinking none of it is her fault & with the same bad attitude.

I moved my bright, uncooperative, disruptive dd to Sydenham Girls in SE26 after taking her out of another school because of her awful behaviour. She is still doing the same things but the school is more supportive of us and we are happier.

Your dd has a right to an education. What are the LA offering? They need to find a place for her.

Presumably you have tried looking at the causes of this behaviour. No child is born with these behaviours, so somewhere along the line there must be a cause, even if it was some time ago. It sounds to me as though she needs some help from the Educational Psychologist or similar to introduce behaviour changing techniques, but first the cause needs to be identified. The school should be supportive in finding this help.

Some schools take the attitude that she will be gone in a short time and off their hands. That may help them, but it's not going to help your daughter and you need to insist on getting some professional help or she will continue like this if and when she goes on to college.

Another alternative is if you have someone in the family (perhaps an aunt or uncle) whom she trusts and will act as a mediator between you, your daughter and the school. If you can find someone like this to help you will have to trust them implicitly and accept that she may tell them things that you are not allowed to hear (this also to applies to profession help, of course).

Whatever you do, I wish you the best with this very difficult task.

Presumably you're in the private sector (references aren't part of state school admissions criteria, whatever the reason for the move).

It may be worth getting on to LA, however, as they must find a place for you somewhere. But whether you feel that school will meet your DD's needs (in anything other an securing a fresh start) is impossible to tell. Good schools are full; only if all schools are full can they force one over numbers. But if you apply to the school/s of your choice, and are rejected, you can try an appeal (at which you would need to demonstrate why the school was particularly good for your DD, and the presence of behavioural experts might be a strong argument).

If you want to stay private, then the bad reference is more of a problem, especially as London day schools are likel to be full, and also can be picky. Would you consider weekly boarding just outside London? I don't have any specific recommendations, but the environment is quite different and admissions are typicall less pressured.

Don't know about London, but everywhere else I have lived there are Fair Access Policies in place which mean that excluded pupils are moved to another (state) school with or without a stay in a PRU. It sort of seems to work like a one in, one out, so she would be offered a place even if all the local schools are over-subscribed.

I have no idea about private, but I'm guessing there is no obligation for any school to take her.

Is there any way you can home school her for a while, and see if she relaxes, having been taken out of the volatile situation she was in?

If she was A grade once, she can be again. Something went badly wrong. You don't say what triggered the downward spiral. Do you know what caused it?

Are there any free schools for that age group that you could look at?

Can you confirm are you at a private school or a state school?
Because they are entirely different in what you might or might not be able to do.

I was in a state school, but tried twice to move to the independent sector as I felt it would offer her a better learning environment - one day and one boarding without much success and this was before things got to as bad as they are now.

The bad behaviour seemed to start when she was bullied in her first year and she got into a fight. Although I complained the school took the stance that because my dd was bigger than the girl she couldn't be bullied. She was then excluded for three days and the downward spiral continued. She turned from someone who never got into trouble into someone who always had her back up and quite frankly defiant. She just seemed to be in and out of trouble from then onwards, whether it was her fault or not. She would often come to me crying that no one believed her when she was telling the truth. Her personality then turned quite negative with her thinking she won't amount to anything so why bother. It hurts me because I feel like the school really chipped away at her to leave a shadow of her former self who started to lack ambition and have an unhealthily casual approach to her education. In contrast, in her outside school activities I never received any negative complaints about her so I knew the problem stemmed from school.

She had been seen previously by an ed psych (at my request) who felt she would benefit from some form behavioural support. Admittedly the school offered something, but they were very relaxed about it. Instead rather than dealing with problems they would keep her out of classes, put her on report or put her in isolation.

I forgot to mention prior to the PE, my dd was on report for an incident which happened last year. The school refused to take her off as they felt she hadn't improved enough despite there being a drastic improvement in her behaviour. Her report wasn't glowing, but there were no major incidents and her school work had got much better. However despite this the school gave her another fixed term exclusion for persistent rude and defiant behaviour based on the past four terms. So to put it another way she was excluded for things in the past and then excluded for them again.

Since my OG post the school have contacted me offering a managed move as an alternative to PE. I'm not entirely convinced they're really that concerned for my dd's well being and merely doing this to avoid a PE on their records.

My LA have said as all the schools in the borough are full my only option at this moment is a PRU until a place can be found somewhere.

Apologies for the extended rant.

Can you PM me which borough you are in?

It's good that the school are offering a managed move. Is your DD in Y9 or 10?

Another vote for trying HE if it is at all possible. If you were considering private education, you would have money to pay for some friendly, lively tutoring if she wants it. My 3 children all have spent some time HEing (2 of them now happily back in school), and it has been great for all of them. I know it's not for everyone, but don't dismiss it out of hand. All of mine had hugely improved attitudes and were much happier after a few months of taking charge of their own lives.

This is a slightly bizarre situation. In order that a managed move can take place two schools should be talking to each other and therefore the receiving must either have a place in the year group or the other school is prepared to admit over PAN. For the LA however to be saying all schools are full and a PRU is the only way forward simply does not tie in with what the school are saying.

The school has presumably PE your daughter for persistent disruptive behaviour but they cannot keep counting the same offences, there needs to have been at least a further last incident that was the "straw that broke the camels back". Without a last incident and without significant evidence that the school have tried different approaches to improve behaviour I would question whether the PE is sustainable when it goes to the governing body discipline panel and independent review panel. This sounds remarkably like a school that has decided to get rid of a nuisance!

I think that it would be inappropriate to carry on any further detailed discussion on this open forum but if you want to PM me 24mum I may be able to offer advice on what your options now are, given that I sit on independant exclusion review panels.

If all of the schools are full, then presumably the managed move is outside of the borough? Managed move can work out well and could be preferable to the PRU.

Managed moves can sometimes be to a PRU- could they be offering that?

I agree with admission, it's very odd.

Thank you for all your advice, you've all been so helpful.

@admission and @tethersend I will drop you both a PM.