Moving from the US to the UK

[MJIG]

We will be moving to the London from the US with our daughter who will be starting year 11 in September. Can anyone offer advice on state schools? I understand that she would be entering a school in the middle of the GCSE years so I am looking for information on what type of school would help her assimilate best into the UK system. We would like her to move on to the IB diploma.

It will be very difficult for her to slot into Y11 and have a good attempt at GCSEs. There will be 2 terms left of basically a five term course. Some subjects may have already done their controlled assessments in Y10.

The subjects will not match up well with what she has done in the US, and even if she is very bright and motivated, it will be very difficult for her.

I think you have two options to do the right thing by your DD:

1. put her into Y10
2. put her into a US diploma or IB MYP for a year, then move onto the IB diploma for sixth form. This option would cost you £15k ++ for the year.

There is more flexibility in age groupings above age 16. In most schools/6th forms/colleges you can't take AS/A levels or IB without having achieved 5 GCSE at C or above (or equivalent) often including the same topic at A*/A/B ie. in English for English Lit or Science for Chemistry. You may hear mention of the EBacc which is a core range of subjects achieved at this level. Some A levels will teach a subject from scratch (ie. Economics) but even then it is some advantage to have done relevant GCSEs (such as Geography). In Year 12 you may get those resitting to get a better result or even taking extra ones , so your dd would not necessarily be alone if she were still doing GCSE courses in year 12. Also Year 12 is typically the first year of A level courses (known as AS levels) and you may find those from year above resitting these to get required grades to take A level the following year.

Amerryscot -- It is my understanding that the girl is in grade 10 in the US, meaning:

a) she would not be doing the MYP as it is for middle school students, grade 6-8 (in the American/International private school system)
b) she would have two years left in a private US/IB school and would complete said IB in two years, costing £30,000.
c) I don't know about you but for our family (and the OPs, I believe) £30,000 ain't peanuts -- besides probably wanting to live somewhere near said schools, which is an impossibility for my family and maybe hers as well (no relocation package as stated in the OP)

MYP goes up to 10th grade US; diploma is 11th and 12th grade.

Many state school sixth forms offer an IB stream so no fees required for those two diploma years, just the Y11 bridge year.

As a fee payer paying 40k per year, I live and breathe that fees are not peanuts - but they are worth it. We got into the independent system when we moved from the US and local state schools inappropriate. Ours was a local transfer, so we don't get any help with fees. We suck it up for the sake of our DCs.

Amerryscot no one is doubting that your daughter is not worth the 40,000 you pay annually for her school fees. But if the OP doesn't have access to that kind of money then, well, she doesn't!

Amerryscot, at two of our international schools in Eastern Europe MYP was only up to grade 8, so I'm sorry for the mistake. I will definitely try to keep sucking it up for my girls. Thank you for the advice.

Spalva just realised I never replied to your last pm!

Will do it now!

Apologies!

I don't know why you think that MYP only goes up to Y8. The IBO, itself, states that MYP is for students aged 11-16.

We have dual citizenship so were are European Union members as far as Uni fees are concerned

BIG MISTAKE

You need to be 'ordinarily resident' in the EU for three years to get EU fees, regardless of having EU citizenship.

It is perfectly possible to do gcses in a year for bright pupils, several private colleges do it, see here www.dldcollege.co.uk/subjects-and-courses/gcse-subjects.aspx However the state school system is not geared to delivering the syllabus in 1 year. The problem is that whilst gcses are not demanding in terms of intellectual application, they are in terms of learned knowledge, and syllabuses vary between various exam boards let alone to what your daughter has learnt in the us. Generally academic children in the Uk would do at least 10, with English literature and language, Maths, 2 or 3 Sciences, either general science syllabus covering all three sciences or 3 individual sciences, a language (your daughter may well be at Gcse standard already, many learn Spanish for Gcse from scratch in 2 years), and then a mix of History, geography, Religion and ethics, further Languages, drama, art, music, textiles, design technology etc etc etc. and expect a string of A/ A *. That takes a lot of cramming of knowledge for exams. Can you not stretch to a private college geared to delivering the curriculum in a year, then your daughter could fit back into our state system where it best suits her.

Amerryscot, jeez Louise, I think I just explained that the two schools we attended had it only to grade 8 (not Y8). I also apologized. What gets under the skin of some Mumsnetters, I have no idea.

Interesting info here, private schools and colleges cashing in on the gap in the market. www.hothousemedia.com/ltm/ltmbackissues/jan12web/jan12sec1.htm

A lot of these private colleges are what is known as the UK as crammars ie they cater to students who for whatever reason did not do well in their previous schools. They can have a reputation for being for drop outs but I know that the one year GCSE at DLD had amongst those who are retaking, those from International backgrounds, those who just didn't fit with their previous schools (friend's v bright DC, now at Oxford went there from v. academic private girls' s school in Y11 because she was just fed up with the alpha girl, sloaney/ preppy culture ) and some very bright pupils from less well performing inner city state schools whose parents have stretched themselves (often really stretched themselves) to afford the one year to give their DCs a chance of the best grades.

However Wellington is a well respected boarding school that a lot of my expat friends have been very happy with.

Some of these schools might consider a bursary, paying or subsidising fees, for a bright child but I think they are quite stringent about requiring proof of financial need.

The problem is that our state schools, whatever the attitudes of their staff, just do not have the processes and funding that enable them to be flexible to the needs of International students. We had experience of this at 11 returning from abroad, even though we owned our house in the UK and could have demonstrated we were moving back we could not apply until we were actually resident in our house with utility bills in our name to prove it, by which time the local schools were full. In contrast we found that private schools really valued our daughters international background.

By the way I do not know of a secondary school in the UK, state or private, that does not provide opportunities for extra curricular sports, music , drama etc. On top of that there are extensive opportunities out of school, especially in London, plenty of Theatre groups, Sports Clubs etc. that will enable your DC to perform to the limits of their potential.

I would add I was speaking recently to a friend who is American and works with children in International Schools in another part of the world on literacy skills. Her judgement is that the British system does not teach children to write as well as the American system, to articulate themselves and present an argument, but does teach the skills of literary criticism and analysis to a much greater depth. Feedback from other friends who have shifted between the systems, or taught in both, is that there are many similar differences of emphasis between the two systems, and of course specialist A levels, narrow but in more depth, are a symptom of that.

I hope this helps, it is stressful, but I do think our kids are in the end the better for the experience of change and of other cultures. My DDs really value their time in other cultures for all that at times it was an upheaval.

I agree with Copthallresident. DC's cousin transferred to the UK system from a non English speaking system in Year 11. The idea was that he would spend a year making the transition in a "college" environment (in his case Ashbourne College) and working very hard, ready to join a sixth form in a more traditional school.

All very different yet he managed something amazing like 10A*s. Inevitably extra curricular options were limited but his parents were impressed by the efforts made to organise a choir and by the art.

The advantage is that colleges are geared up to covering the whole syllabus in a year, which a school wont be. Fees appear to be no worse than a standard private school, and it need only be for a year. Demographics have also changed from my day when crammers appeared to be full of idle public school boys resitting. Instead there seems to be a strong overseas contingent seeking British qualifications as a prelude to applying to British Universities who are expecting to work hard.

Copthallresident- thank you for the great information. I have been very discouraged after talking to admissions yesterday at many of the schools that we were interested in.

Needmoresleep- it is nice to hear that someone has done this and had positive results. Thanks!

I was shocked by the fact that schools can just tell you that they will not accept a student in a non-intake year. This is a very big learning curve for me and I appreciate all the help that everyone on the board has been offering.

My sister's friend who grew up in England (now lives in the US) sent this link to me so that I could get an idea of the differences in education. Has anyone used this?
www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/

Bitesize is great for GCSE revision.

Hi,yes DDs used it for revision, recommended by their academic private school BUT big health warning schools here have become very good at teaching to the exam, technique rather than what I would call an Education. This will give you an idea but probably doesn't reflect the boring slog it takes to get an A*. If you google or look around here you will see the debate going on about the future of Gcses.

How do schools look at these crammers? Will it hurt her chances of getting in to an IB?

If your DD does do go down the route of taking GCSE'S in one year don't think that she needs to take loads of them. Fewer GCSEs at A* is better than loads at lower grades.

Mostly though, as long as she does well in her IB and as long as it is explained on her University application that she took her GCSE's in one year then her GCSE grades won't be the be all and end all ( as long as they are reasonable)

Phoning school admissions is a very painfully buisness. When we moved to the UK with three non-intake year kids it literally took dozens and dozens of calls. Some State Admissions Departments were spectacularly unhelpful. Some private schools were not much better. I just kept calling and kept calling and everything fell into place eventually.

Does it matter which examining board (edexcel, ocr, aqa) the GCSE is from?

It doesn't matter about the exam board, or if GCSE or iGCSE, or even the Welsh or The Scottish equivalant. But you really need Maths, English and Science.

Why would schools have negative opinions on what you have referred to as "crammers"? Our experience (for sixth form rather than GCSE) was very positive - certainly no problems with applications for UK universities.
These colleges can offer 1 year courses as the classes are small (around 8 students rather than say 26 in a mainstream school) and students will probably take fewer GCSEs than in schools (8 rather than 10 or more).
Sixth forms will choose students on predicted grades/interview/reference (and any catchment criteria that individual schools might have).

At state schools certain things must be done at certain ages and there is very little flexibility. But after that, your dd can do whatever suits her educationally. As long as she achieves the right qualifications or exam results, her age won't matter.

It seems to me that the main problem is how to get past the next year. After that your dd can go to college, university etc whenever she is at the right stage educationally irrespective of her age.

If private education isn't an option then you could consider home education for the next year or longer until your dd has racked up enough IGCSEs to start a more advanced course such as A levels. She can sit IGCSEs in any order, all at once or a few at a time. You do have to source the materials yourself and pay the exam fees and centre fees, but a bright academically-inclined teenager should be fine without any tutoring.

Here's some info about how to do that: www.nwilts-he.org.uk/he_exams_wiki People often "work backwards" by first checking out the advanced courses and then looking at the entry requirements for it.

Home ed itself is straightforward: there is no curriculum you must follow and you don't need approval from anyone; you just go ahead and do it in whatever way suits your child.

MGIJ I think I mentioned friends DD getting into Oxford from a private college after the one year O level and then A levels (sorry I used the term crammar in order to knock it down, not play to the stereotype). In fact the flexibility helped her in that she did German GCSE as soon as she arrived as they judged her ready ( many of the private schools get them to a GCSE skills level in Year 10, and even Year 9 or earlier), and then she did AS at the end of Year 11, clearing the way to focus on other A2s. I actually think an unconventional background is an advantage, shows it hasn't all come on a plate and they have learnt a few life lessons.