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Secondary education

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Is entry to independent school really like this?

134 replies

headfairy · 29/11/2012 18:43

I've cut and pasted this from The Times, it's one woman's experience of getting her dd in to a selective independent school. I was quite shocked, is that really what you and your dcs have to go through if that's the kind if education you want for them?

It’s 11-plus season. Helen Rumbelow hears a mother’s story of betrayal, lies, intensive tutoring and parental neurosis
It was like a scene out of a civil war — and in a way it was. Outside, van loads of extra police had been drafted in by the council to try to stop adults careening their cars over the road. Inside, over a thousand children were corralled in a vast hall.
Still only 10, they knew there was something very ominous about the day and had the pale faces of young children whose stomachs were in knots. Chances were, they were about to let their parents down. Parents who were so determined and competitive that normal social conventions had gone out of the window the minute stakes got this high: from illegal parking to lying that bordered on sabotage.
The cars of over a thousand parents ramming against each other for space was a good metaphor. Inside, some children were in tears, some fled the room saying they felt sick.
Jane watched her ten-year-old daughter Molly take her place bravely at one of the most competitive grammar school examinations in West London — and probably the country. “I did think at that point: this is quite cruel.”
Cruel to be kind? When Jane first had children, a decade ago, it never crossed her mind that this was where she would end up. She and her husband had both grown up outside London, and had good educations at state schools; Jane at a comprehensive, he at a grammar school. They both went to top-tier universities and on to professional jobs.
“Looking back, I am so surprised.
I would never have dreamt that I would have a daughter at a private school.
And I had absolutely no idea what the selection process would entail.”
Now bruised and battered Jane has — anonymously — co-authored a guide to the whole process which is part battle-plan, part post-combat stress therapy. It was written for others like her who came to the realisation late: that you can trust no one. This Christmas season, hundreds of thousands of ambitious parents will be putting their child forward for an 11-plus-style exam at selective state or private schools.
What they are also subjecting themselves to is an ordeal in which their child and their family are pitted directly against others in the neighbourhood: friends turn into vicious rivals, giving away nothing — or mis-information.
“The secrecy surrounding the 11-plus,” writes Jane on the book’s website, “can feel like you are trying to do the equivalent of breaking into the Bank of England.”
For an anthropologist studying the genus Parentus neuroticus in their natural habitat, the Perfect Parents’ Insider Guide to the 11 Plus could not be better fieldwork.
Jane first knew something strange was going on when she exposed a previously good friend’s betrayal. Having always assumed that Molly would go to a state secondary, it was only in her penultimate year of state primary school, Year 5, that Jane began to consider private education.
Molly desperately wanted to go to an all-girls school, of which there were no local state options. She was, said her teacher, bright enough to endure the examination process. But when Jane started to ask around, she was told — a full year before the exams began — that all the tutors were booked up, because parents started reserving places when their child reached Year 3.
“One friend said, ‘Oh, just relax!’. She had two children in private school, and another in my daughter’s year, and she said they didn’t believe in tutoring. They just did a few practice papers.”
Jane was quite prepared to believe her, except that when she did eventually find a tutor through a late cancellation, she bumped into the very same friend on the doorstep.
“She did look shamefaced. It turned out that she had used a tutor extensively for all her children. And this, we found out, was widespread. Everyone pretends that they are not really tutoring.
‘We’re laid back,’ they tell you. ‘If you have a bright child, you’ll be fine.’
Do not believe them. I don’t know anyone who gets into a selective school who has not been tutored or very heavily supported by their parents.
“Because I went to a comprehensive, I had no idea how many hoops you had to jump through. The first is that people will not give away the names of good tutors because you are competing with your children’s friends. It’s a horrible situation to be in.”
Jane took on the role of “detective and investigative journalist”, tracking down contacts through parents of older children and sourcing material on the internet.
She found herself feeling naive again. It was not uncommon for children to have multiple tutors: specialising in English, maths and non-verbal reasoning parts of most tests. This was on top of the music tuition that many paid for in the hope of getting into selective schools that reserved places for those of musical aptitude.
“We thought that because Molly was grade four on the piano, she was pretty good. We gave up on that thought pretty quickly though, as the schools we went to weren’t interested in piano, as they were recruiting children for their school orchestra. Children had the best chances on ‘endangered instruments’ like the bassoon. Most schools were demanding at least the level of grade 5, one grade 6.”
As the year went on, the levels of preparation intensified in direct proportion to the numbers of parents saying “we’re staying laid back”. Children at nearby private primaries were given practice papers every day, so Jane sourced her own from the internet. But they came without the answers, “so you end up having to do the test with your child”. One 90-minute paper a day was considered the norm through the Christmas holidays, “although we had Christmas Day off”.
“I had to bribe my daughter with a lot of clothes. My friend was bribing her son with games for his computer. Because no normal child really wants to be doing a practice paper.”
Molly did exams for six different schools, and went through to the interview stage. Jane was again appalled to realise that some parents had employed a specialist interview tutor.
“At the first interview, the girl next to her had a whole portfolio of art with her to show. It was intimidating but in the end I don’t think it was necessary.”
Finally, Molly got into her school of choice: a private all-girls school in London. None of the others that did so got in by chance: “They were the daughters of parents who were very committed.”
However, Jane and her peers spent a year in a state of paranoia and neuroticism, and Molly could have had more fun. So, was it worth it? “Yes. We wanted to make sure that we had done everything we could for our child.” Does it bring out the worst in people? “Yes.”
The Perfect Parents’ Insider Guide to the 11 Plus is available from 11plusperfectparent.com

OP posts:
headfairy · 03/12/2012 11:19

PMSL @ One of mine tried for a super selective sixth form this year and was asked how she would solve the arab israeli conflict.

Maybe that's the test, if you even attempt it then you're an idiot. If you say "how on earth am I, a 16 year old school kid, supposed to come up with a solution when hundreds of experts with decades of experience in the area can't?"

OP posts:
TessOfTheBaublevilles · 03/12/2012 12:14

Yes it can be like this, but it goes without saying, that not all parents are like it.

DS1 (who is 13 on 8 Dec) is off to senior school next September. DH and I were very relaxed about the whole pretest/interview process, there was absolutely NO tutoring (and I say that with complete honesty), because we didn't want to put any undue pressure on DS1.

Two of the Alpha Mums at DS1's prep-school had the damn cheek to actually say to me, that DH and I were "bonkers" for not having DS1 tutored, and that he wouldn't get into any of the top senior schools let alone 'The School'. 'The School' is a particular senior school that most parents at this prep-school want to get their sons into. It's the Holy Grail if you like.

DS1 aced the pretests for 'The School', and clearly performed well in the interview, because he received an offer (conditional obviously, on his performance in the CE). He received offers from all the schools we put him forward for.

As for the sons of the two Alpha Mums I mentioned, well they didn't get offers from 'The School', and I really wanted to gloat. However, then I realised that would make me as bad as them, so I fought off the urge!

seeker · 03/12/2012 13:11

Letty- I hate to break it to you, but it is very unlikely your son had the best marks in the county in his SATs. There are a finite number of marks you can get, and it is pretty unlikely that only one child in the county got full marks. Full marks is brilliant, though. But he probably wasn't alone in that.

seeker · 03/12/2012 13:12

Sorry,wrong thread!

changejustforyou · 03/12/2012 21:56

ds like the experience of the exam, they got hot chocolate and loads of biscuits...

Sparrows12 · 04/12/2012 09:36

Elibean - yes - I was taken aback by mad Arab/Israeli conflict question - I would have run a mile. I asked her how she answered and she said she told the interviewer she would remind both sides they must share some fundamental values underneath all the detail, and that they should try and strip back to those. I was impressed tbh - especially as she cleverly disguised her complete absence (i am guessing) of any knowledge at all on the subject. Oh to have the cockiness of the 16 year old. My brain would have whirred around in a blind panic regretting never tuning itself into the today programme as it is always too early in the morning. They offered her an academic scholarship. I felt v proud!

Katryn · 04/12/2012 11:43

It is hell and my son went through it last year. I was coming from a primary state, and quite naive. This is what I wrote on my blog last
year:mindbodybeautyhealth.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/the-hell-of-getting-into-a-london-independent-school-at-11/

helpyourself · 04/12/2012 11:57

I think it's he'll because for some reason everyone seems to be invested in it being hell. Parents to justify the fees they're about to pay, schools to get the application fees.
Unclench and l

helpyourself · 04/12/2012 11:58

Sorry. Blobby fingers.
Unclench and relax- l

helpyourself · 04/12/2012 11:59

I give up.
The system needs a lot of stressed parents. Try not to buy into it.

OhDearConfused · 04/12/2012 12:39

Thanks, Kathryn, did he get one of the places he was after?
Hope so....
Any other tips for those of us coming from state primaries??

Copthallresident · 04/12/2012 16:59

Katryn For everything you say on the blog that ramps up people's anxiety I could say something to counter it. Yes big numbers apply to each school, but they each apply to more than one school, there are enough places to go around and you are only likely to lose out if you are too focused on certain highly selective schools and not including schools that your child has a realistic chance of success at.

Yes there are some tough questions on the exam papers but that is because schools are wanting to test every aspect of children's abilities, and even the brightest (and some of the brightest might actually not be very accurate when it comes to straightforward questions). Just because they are there does not mean they expect every child who gets in to get it right. The irony is that the schools that include the straightforward questions are with some justification accused of setting exams you can tutor for, whilst those who include reasoning type and more obtuse questions that are difficult to tutor to get accused of making the exams formidable... In the end they are wanting to select the children with most potential and they especially want the children from state schools with potential, so they take educational background into account when they assess pupils and they make sure that they set exams that are tests of potential not cramming. However this is not comfortable for parents who want in some way to be in control of the process and really can't cope with not being able to do very much to influence the outcome.

The most important thing you can do in the process is actually the opposite of that last sentence, relax, don't let your child think you care, don't set them up to think that one outcome is success and one failure, especially if the outcome marked success is a narrow target and the one marked failure a yawning chasm.

DD's friends whatever schools they went to at primary and secondary level have ended up at the universities that their ability would lead you to expect them to get to, including Oxbridge. A bright child from a caring and supportive family is going to be enabled to do well wherever they go to school.

helpyourself · 04/12/2012 18:06

^^ what cop said.
I know journalists and bloggers need copy, but these handwringing xy or z is ruining my child's life are part of the problem.

Farewelltoarms · 04/12/2012 18:31

Exactly. Most schools, on pure figures, are oversubscribed because almost everyone applies for more than one school. So these scary stats about 1000 for 100 places don't mean there are nine children left weeping without a place. That Toby Young is always going on about how oversubscribed his school is without clarifying that they are using figures which take all without taking into account which ones place them as a first choice.
Having said that I am freaked out by the idea of my ds poss doing some 11 plus style exams in a couple of years' time. But then I realise it's crazy when I meet the products of these elite procedures and they seem to end up in the exact same universities (smattering of Oxbridge, bit of Leeds, sprinkling of Sheffield) as the products of my local comp. I did enjoy Kathryn's blog post and found it heartfelt, but I wonder whether her boy will end up pretty similar whether he goes to academic boys school or c of e secondary.

AngelEyes46 · 04/12/2012 19:24

Headfairy - I think I know the RC school that your sister wants and distance is a low criteria - she should not have anything to worry about if her dd fits the catholic criteria

Katryn · 04/12/2012 21:00

Yes my DC did get a place at at one of the three schools he applied for and he's very happy there. But my advice coming from state primary, is to tutor and go through exam papers for much longer than we did - at least one year before the January exams.

harrassedswlondonmum · 04/12/2012 22:32

Copthallresident - I totally agree with you, you are spot on.

Interesting that you use the word "control" like I did - "However this is not comfortable for parents who want in some way to be in control of the process and really can't cope with not being able to do very much to influence the outcome."

In my opinion this is the reason for most of the angst!!

Katryn · 05/12/2012 10:25

Farewelltoarms Yes you're right to make the point that he may well end up at the same university as he would have done if he'd gone to CE state. In fact he's gone to a co-ed school, not highly academic boys. But as I said in my blog, once he'd looked round the glossy private, with its acres of playing fields, and compared it to the very very (outstanding) good state, (which seemed crowded in comparison and with not much access to outside space) he was hooked in to the private and really really wanted to go. Having put him through the process of tutoring and the exams, I couldn't then turn around and say actually you're going to the state - even though by then I felt it probably would have been as good, but in a different way. Hard to explain here.

Farewelltoarms · 05/12/2012 14:59

Katryn, I think you explain it really well both here and in the blog. I could empathise with all you say and it sounds as though at times you were cursing your mother's generosity. My dcs aren't at this point yet but I feel really angry at myself for hassling the teacher for levels and stressing about tutors because my eldest is already doing really well at his fab (but very ordinary) state primary. The teacher looks at me as though I'm mad when I talk about him needing to be equivalent of level 5 by end of year 5.
It's what surprises me about these private schools - not that they do so well, but why they don't do better. I wonder whether any school with the raw material they're getting wouldn't do as well.
And also take your point re the facilities. The private primaries we looked at were shocking, they didn't even have playgrounds, but the secondaries are a different matter.
I suppose also your story actually confirms what Copthall is saying - that despite all the scary statistics children do seem to end up with a place somewhere. I'm glad he's happy where he landed.

Farewelltoarms · 05/12/2012 15:02

ps I did book a tutor from jan 2014 y5 - she's just rung to say would I like one of the jan 2013 places and I said yes.
I hate myself!

Miggsie · 05/12/2012 15:09

DD sat an exam for the local selective - it was a bit like this, but only about 130 children after 40 places.

We rejected the school (although DD passed the exam) due to the fact the parents was over competitive and fraught and I couldn't see how we would ever fit in.
DD also said the other girls were "not nice" and the test was "boring".

She is at a non selective now.

However, many many West London parents go through this - when you step back and look as an independent observer it is bonkers.

OhDearConfused · 05/12/2012 15:41

Farewell: The teacher looks at me as though I'm mad when I talk about him needing to be equivalent of level 5 by end of year 5.

Yep - I get those looks too. The parents of the kids at the top in the (likewise) excellent but ordinary state primary withthe full mix are the ones who hassle the teachers more about progress! And we want level 6 maths by end of year 6!

OhDearConfused · 05/12/2012 15:42

but actually doesn't matter too much what level he's at at end of year 6 since the tests will have been and gone months before.....

castlesintheair · 05/12/2012 18:45

Katryn, thank you for linking your blog - that is exactly how I am feeling and trying desperately not to at the moment. My DS is sitting them all now and in January. Also from a state primary. I am dying to know which school your DS ended up at as we are in the same area ... Just curious, and desperate! I shall be so pleased once 14th Feb has been and gone!

West London parents do seem to be in a total frenzy. A tutor I know already had a waiting list of 35 last year for reception chidren who will not be starting tutoring with her until Year 5 in 20?? Crazy. Can I just say to parents who are embarking on the tutoring - we have done it from Feb in Yr 5 after much deliberating and I don't think I will do it with my other 2 DCs. The most effective help we have given our DS has come from us and working through exam questions/bond papers. Other people have said this to me too, though of course it's hard to tutor your own child without getting emotional, finding the time etc, etc. But even with all that I will still not be paying for another tutor. At the moment Xmas Wink

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