Size of AS/A2 classes.

[hanginginthere1]

My daughter has chosen to stay at her school to follow her aA level courses. Did well at GCSE' and has A*,s in all her chosen subjects. She liked her teachers at GCSE, and wanted to continue with them at A level. She is, however becoming more and more concerned by the size of the classes, especially in the Sciences. Her Chemistry class has 25 kids in it. Many of them did not take the separate science option at GCSE, and some of them did not achieve particularly high grades in the Core Science exams that they took. Over the weeks the class has steadily increased in size, to the point that the teacher, who is very good, is having to spend lots of time with the lower end of the class helping them to understand stuff that my daughter did last year. Daughter not exactly being neglected completely, but there have been times when she and few others have been waiting for help, in order to move on, and the teacher is unable to give , because she is run ragged trying to deal with the middle/ bottom end. Add to this the fact that some of the class are beginning to disrupt by being disrespectful/ talking over the teacher whilst she is trying to teach etc.
Has anyone any experience of this situation? My daughter feels, and I am beginning to agree with her that after the high standards of her GCSE Science lessons, she now feels aSs if she is in a mixed ability class.
Surely this is not right, a similar thing is beginning to happen in her English lessons too. She is a clever girl, she wants to study medicine, and I fear that she is not going to achieve this whilst in this situation.. She will need a lot of help if she is to get on to a medicine course, and I see the potential for things to go wrong. Am in the process of trying to speak to her Head of Yr, but I don't know if anything can be done.
It is so frustrating. I have never known an A level class t have 25 in it before. There seems to be a huge difference between those who did separate sciences, and those who did not.
The school is high achieving one in a middle class area, and otherwise quite good, but for my daughter it feels like a completely different place to the way it was last year

Yes, it is extremely frustrating. I think we could cope with the size of the class if the ability level was closer. However, it would appear to me that a GCSE grade B in the combined science is a world apart from a grade B in the single award. What must the difference be between this and an A* in separate science. The teachers say that this is not the case, but they would say this would't they?

IME there isn't a world of difference between a B in core and additional and a B in triple. My strugglers come from both routes. Not sure why I would say it if it wasn't the case.

That's interesting, but not my daughter's experience at her school.

Which area are you in?

Funding has now changed under Tories, no extra money for sixth formers which has led to bigger classes.

Ime there will be drop outs at Xmas- hang on and get a tutor. Go for recommendations. And ask for school to run top up classes for A grade students in Chem and Eng.

Work experience is essential- she needs to get volunteering. Is she doing EPQ?

A grade B in single science is exactly the same STANDARD as a grade B in double award.

The difference is that the single science pupils have covered more topics to get the third gcse.

Because of the way that a level and gcse sciences are structured there will always be duplication of content for those that have done triple science. As a result your daughter is finding some concepts easier than those that have never seen these before. I agree that there sounds like a need to address the classroom management to ensure that all are stretched and engaged, but duplication of topics is completely normal.

The reason I say that the standards are the same between core/additional is that they use exactly the same exams. The third gcse comes from extra exams based on New content.

Thanks for that, Haunted, that explains a few things for me.
Turkish delight. Yes, she is in the process of fixing up some volunteering at a local care home. She is also applying to do work experience at the local hospital.
What is EPQ?

EPQ is the AQA bacc that is like a university research project into an area of interest. ALL our sixth form are encouraged to do it, med students ALWAYS do it and this is key to their success (they feel) in landing places. Have a google, ask at school- may be something she does at A2. Her volunteer work will count towards it.

I have read, supervised and mentored some fascinating projects that have definitely set our students apart from other candidates.

Is this the same as the extended study/essay/dissertation type thing?

Yes, a project outside the area of study of their a levels that contains research and a practical product or essay as the outcome.

Yes, they do this at her school. Not sure that she has thought too much about it yet, but will mention it to her.
She has played tennis to national standard, though not so much recently, due to school work. Realistically, would this help at all in her application to medicine? Keep getting conflicting advice, here.

giving up national standard tennis to focus on school work might raise a few questions about ability to cope with workload. However having interests outside medicine so that she can cope with stress is essential. So mentioning that she plays tennis is good, saying she's doing less of it could be related to spending time on volunteer work but not school work.

sorry have name changed for this. We have class sizes of up to 25 for bio, chem, and phys, and up to 30 for everything else. It is way too big imo, but not that of slt or the budget folk
we have minimum requirements of a B in the relevant science, or add sci for any of the sciences. It is not enough imo, i have many students struggling in my large classes who just managed to scrape a B.
Only private schools round here who have smaller class sizes, or those schools who can't fill the spots!

My DD is at a normal comp and her class sizes are between 5 and 20. 20 in maths, but they are getting quite a few dropping out, so I don't think it will be as many after Christmas.

I teach 26 in my a level English class. It is killing me! There are another 2 classes with 20 in each, so in this case it's not about money, it's just a popular course. But it is too many.

Where there are small class sizes, the question is whether it is low take up, or more than one smaller group. I'd be v surprised if it were the latter.

I heard some parents sounding off about this issue at my local sixth form college: the subject was maths where the ability range was too wide. Frankly I think to pursue a subject to A Level a student should have achieved at least an A grade at GCSE. I know there is now compulsory education to 17 (and then 18) but perhaps there could be a Sixth Form Certificate or somesuch for all those not up to studying discreet subjects to a higher level.

DD's class sizes are
Maths:12
Biology:8
Physics:7
psychology:5
saying this she is at a private school but i know her friends from her old state school do have larger classes but there are never more than 18-20, also there are some girls in DD's maths who are incredible good, the teacher goes at the less able students pace giving the ones who are better extra work which they can usually do without my trouble, DD got an A at GCSE but is struggling at the a level, so sometimes it isnt that they did bad at gcse but are struggling to adapt to the alevel, DD is now going to many after school maths session and is getting help but the teacher knows she cant leave the lower ability students behind to get more confused and at the slower pace DD is starting to feel comfortable with the course and understanding better, maybe suggest to your DD to ask for more work that is still about what they are doing in class but slightly harder or more like the exam questions?

Chuckling at the suggestion to study MFL! I teach it, and yes I only had 5 at AS last year and now 4 at A2, but it is a seriously academic subject so I wouldn't recommend it unless you have an A* at GCSE...

My DS is at a comprehensive (now in Year 13) and his class sizes for AS were:

Maths - 17
Physics - 15
Chemistry - 10
Further Maths - 2 (!)

Similar sizes now for A2 classes. Still just the two of them doing A2 Further Maths.

DD has 7 in her physics class and gets loads of attention, but DS had 30 in his Biology class in a small classroom and yes I'm afraid I do think it affected his results. The teacher constantly moaned about the class size. Both are/ were at state schools BTW.

My school has many AS classes of over 20. It's not ideal, but money restraints make it the only way.

I think that MFL tends to be far more self-selecting than many other subjects. I would be surprised if many students went into a language A level thinking that they can just muddle through somehow. On the whole I think students go into MFL because they are subjects they enjoy and are good at (at least at GCSE level) rather than they are necessarily 'useful'.