DS1 passed 11+ but does not want to go to grammar

[derbyshire]

Running out of time - need to fill LEA form in by end of Oct.
He is in Year 6 of small primary - two good comps and one grammar in 10-mile radius. Comps 66% GCSE A-C and GS 100%.
He passed 11+ 30 pts over average so will prob get in if we put GS as 1st choice.
Shy, quiet boy finds it diff to make new friends. Not sporty but has small group of friends since Reception. This group will be divided between the two comps anyway.
Can be lazy and only worked for 11+ as we told him ultimate choice wld be his.
He wld be the ONLY ONE going from his school - this is biggest factor for him.
I worry that he's going to struggle socially in comp anyway and underachieve as not pushed. I went to state school and drifted near the end.
But will he be too lonely and stressed in GS?
I'm not a Tiger Mother so cld never force him but worry GS best for him and he will regret this later.

I wish I knew the correct answer, as DD2 choose not to do the 11+ because she wanted to stay with her friends. (and avoid rather long days).

Only time will tell if it's the right decision, she gets to play sport for the school which I suspect she wouldn't from the Grammar.

However, she moans about disinterested pupils in non core lessons.

I think a quiet boy would do well at the grammar school and I would lean on him to give it a try.

Had DD2 been the eldest, she would have gone to the grammar school, no choice.

Having an equally bright, but dyslexic sister at the comp. and the grammar forever tying me to the school run, complicated things here.

What Blu said.

And I'm not sure that 11 is so young that you can overrule his choice without discussion. IMO would be a good way of undermining already quiet and shy boy, not great for his self esteem.

I would hate to think of him spending the first term crying - it breaks my heart.
I don't think it helps that he's the youngest in the class- barely 10.

Thing is, this is my first time applying for palces at secondary, and don't know how system works really. (Didn't grow up in this country).

I have thought about either:

i) playing for time by putting the GS as 1st choice for LEA, favourite comp as 2nd choice, and telling him we we could refuse it.
It might give him more time to think, and we can still refuse the place. Yeah, I know it's just hoping he'll change his mind, but it does take the Oct deadline away. And sending it to March!

BUT if we put comp 2nd will we still get a place if he refuses GS?

ii) telling him he can transfer to comp after end of first year at GS if he hates it.

Again, how difficult is it to get a place like that - year 8 of the comp? Could you end up in limbo, with no school place available?

Friendship groups change sooo much in Yr 7. M

y dd was in a similar position to your ds and agonised for ages over whether she should go to the grammar - she wasn't the only one from her primary who was going, but the other girl wasn't a particular friend of hers. She felt that she would like the grammar better, but all the rest of her friendship group - 4 other girls - were going to the comp and I think she imagined that it would all be the same as it had been in primary.

In the event, she chose the grammar and made new friends there. The 4 other girls ended up streamed into 4 separate form groups! She still sees one of them and AFAIK they're all happy, but she's very relieved that she didn't choose her school on the basis of who else was going.

Please send him to the grammar. He's only 11. You should really be making the choice for him. With him being quieter/introvert too I would imagine he would fair much better at a grammar school too. I've seen what goes on at comps these days shudder ....

Three of my 4 DC went to secondary knowing nobody at all. All were fine. The one that went to secondary with friends from primary made new friends within the first half term as he ended up in completely different classes from the old friends.

If the classes are streamed/ set then it's highly unlikely he'd see his old friends anyway, so it really isn't a good reason for choosing a school.

If you put the grammar school first and are offered it that is the only offer you will receive on 'National Offer Day'.

If you then changed your mind you would only get a place in the comp if there were places available after the first round of admissions. You would need to:
-keep your gs offer
-put yourselves on the waiting list for the comp
-wait until all the offers had been accepted and declined and then see if there as a place at the comp.
-if there was, accept that and then decline the GS place.

Is the comp over subscribed? Do you live very close to it, and would therefore be very high up the waiting list?

This is why the order of schools really matters on your preference list, because you only get one offer. You will be offered a place at the school highest in your list which is able to offer you a place under it's admissions criteria. All the other offers, from lower down your prefernce list, will be automatically turned down.

So you can only 'buy time' if you are CERTAIN that the comp will still have places once all the first round offers have been made.

He sounds much better suited to the Grammar, you need to talk him around.

Be careful about promising to refuse the place or move him if he doesn't like it - if he is stubborn he simply won't give it a chance! I know because thats what I did, a decision which led to me leaving school at 16 with a couple of O' levels, having aced the 11 plus 5 short years earlier.

I still can't believe my parents let me decide at 11 - my decision was purely based on where my friends were going - I wouldn't even know those friends if I bumped into them now!!

And of course, if you put GS second you will be offered the comp (if you are within the usual catchment by distance for that school) and the chances of then getting a place on the waiting list for the GS would be very slender indeed, I would think.

I have a friend with a very high achieving DS who deliberately fluffed the test for the selective school because he wanted to go to the comp.

As it happens he is extremely happy there (4 years later), thriving and doing very well academically. But it is a genuine comp with a full range of abilities and teaching to suit and he is in the high performing top stream.

Grammar.

Changing to senior school will be a shock to his system regardless. If does become unhappy at Grammar school it's a lot easier to move him to a secondary than vice versa. And I'd imagine that there are going to be more boys like him in the Grammar school - shy, quiet and bright - and as people have said, even if he was put in a class with all his friends at a secondary, primary school friends often drift apart in secondary.

Make him go to the grammar, end of. I passed 11+ but wanted to go to local secondary with my best friends who either failed 11+ or didn't take it. Parents laughed in my face and told me I was going to grammar, end of. I ended up at Oxbridge, sister (who went to the secondary) ended up leaving at 16 with 4 GCSEs in spite of being very bright (she is now a mature student and doing brilliantly).

IMHO sometimes being a parent is about making the tough choice for your child who doesn't have the maturity to see beyond the immediate. I didn't even go to the local grammar but one a few miles away and I didn't know a soul. But of course you make friends and if your son is bright it is so important he has other bright kids as friends - kids who will 'get him' and see cleverness as a virtue, not something to sneer at. Ironically my friends from primary school had less and less in common with me as we got older anyway so we probably would have grown apart even if I'd been at the same school.

I think it sounds like he'd be better off at the Grammar school. If he is a bit shy but clearly bright then it might help him to become more confident in a school where everyone else is also bright so he isn't the odd one out. Being the only one from his old school might also be an advantage because it means that he gets a fresh start at making new friends without anyone already having labelled him as the shy one.
He is 10 and not in a good position to make a decision in his best interests yet so I think you need to do it for him even if he isn't too keen. I would be cautious about promising to let him switch schools after a year because it's actually quite difficult to switch and there is a chance it might make him hold back in making new friends if he thinks he's only got to get through a year there.

But you need to talk him round gently, not flat out overrule him. TBH I think the mistake you made was ever telling him he could decide - it is a family decision, not a decision for a ten year old who has no idea at all what the choice involves. And that is what you need to get across to him now.

FWIW my DD is at our local comp (no grammar schools in our area) and the school has a deliberate policy of ensuring that no-one ends up in the same class with anyone who was a close friend in their previous class.

DD1 was furious about this as she has been split from one very best friend - but feels very smug because the school did not realise that her other best friend was a girl who was not in the same class as she was at primary - and is now in the same class as she is.

DD1 has also made loads of new friends who have come in from other schools.
I'd go for the grammar, you have time to talk him into it gently.

Also bear in mind that there will be many other children in exactly the same position as your DS in not knowing anyone else in their year, so they will be looking to make new friends too.

I am afraid you need to man up and make a decision . Your ds cannot possibly understand the long term implications of this decision , you are putting far too much pressure on him to expect him to be able to effectively make this decision.

Offers don't go out until 'March which gives you 6 months to explain why the GS is s good choice . The thing is the GS is a one off opportunity if you don't put it as first choice then that chance has gone forever .

My DC went to a different school from their peers. Made the choice with LOADS OF GUIDANCE from mum and dad!! The school they went to was 1200+ students and they knew no one!! Best move I ever made. Much better school than the local comprehensive and yes they do make friends!! Look at yourselves now..how many 'friends' do you still have from school - I'm middle aged now and the people I went to school are acquaintances - my true friends have been made in much later life!! Lives change!!