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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

NC levels in year 7- I am turning into one of ^those^ parents.......!!!

81 replies

seeker · 13/10/2012 07:45

Do you all know what level your year 7 child is working at, and what their targets are? If so, are you willing to share? If not, do you know when you will/do you want to/are you bothered?

And does your child bring marked/commented on homework home regularly?

I have a parent's evening next week, and I am very keen not to appear to be a git with unrealistic expectations......!

OP posts:

MordionAgenos · 13/10/2012 18:25

@maureen I so don't give a tinker's cuss (and being the child of a 'tinker' I know how to do that (or, not do that))

TantrumsAndBalloons · 13/10/2012 18:57

choccy my DCs are mixed race. It made absolutely no difference to their levels at all, why would it?

EvilTwins · 13/10/2012 19:18

TFM - we use FFT and are nagged about levels of progress. It's never ending...

Agree that sub-levels are ridiculous. I teach a subject which doesn't appear in the national curriculum, so the levels are made up anyway, let alone the sub-levels.

noblegiraffe · 13/10/2012 20:12

Choccy, FFT targets and teacher expectations are not the same thing at all. Yes, certain groups on average achieve lower grades as a group than other groups, that's just statistics. However, a teacher wouldn't hold a child back because of this - if anything, a child who can achieve a better grade than their target would suggest is bloody marvellous for the school and so they would be pushed to reach their potential and not simply their target.

Although I hadn't considered that as Gove has now removed the context from contextual value added for the league tables, whether that would mean that FFT are doing the same thing with their targets.

Removing context is great for my school, we have an intake that statistically does very well in exams. If they are now simply expected to do as well as an average intake, we are going to find that piss-easy to manage. We will look brilliant in comparison to schools that do excellent work with a much more disadvantaged intake who can't keep up with the wealthy and tutored lot.

ibizagirl · 14/10/2012 08:10

Dd's targets were 6A for all her subjects (including pe and dance??) and she left primary on 5A (no level 6 paper). Very good at maths so she got 7A in assessments. Got 7's for some others too. She surpassed her targets very early on so when she got her school report it said that she wasn't making progress as she hadn't gained enough levels?? Total rubbish. Year 8 was the same. She was getting level 7A and 8's for subjects (not pe and dance) and her report still looked like she wasn't doing well because of the progress. She couldn't get any higher. Form teacher said to ignore it but dd takes everything to heart and thought she was useless. She's not. And this year - year 9 - the marks are GCSE grades as they are doing GCSE work. SEEKER, don't panic like i did. I was worried to death about these stupid levels and was getting dd's books out and checking all the marks like a weirdo. I don't even bother now unless dd shows or tells me. I know she is doing well. Thats all you can wish for. Good luck and best wishes to all your children. Hope they all do well.

BrianButterfield · 14/10/2012 08:26

I hate NC levels as a teacher. Hate them and like someone said upthread they're not supposed to be applied to a single piece of work. The thing I really detest is the phrase "X is a level 4" as if the child is just a number! It's awful.

I never mention levels to my class at all. I put them on progress reports because I have to but they're largely meaningless to me. Instead I base my assessment of achievement on knowing students well (I see them three times a weeks so plenty of time to suss them out) and provide feedback through proper written comments on pieces of work. However, this takes longer and it does mean sometimes a class might go a few weeks when it looks as though they've had nothing marked (but I was marking extended writing pieces which take ages, or gave verbal feedback in lessons).

One of my Year 7, when asked in their first lesson what they felt they were good at in English at primary, told me they were good at "uplevelling sentences". Ye gods. I wanted to cry.

Original poster

seeker · 14/10/2012 08:40

"One of the biggest indicators of children's success is teachers' expectations, and I believe that these predictions provide schools with an excuse for poor outcomes and let many children down."

Actually, one the biggest - if not the biggest- indicator of children's success is family poverty/affluence. So th FFT predictions actually say to schools "You knew that this child was in a group likely to do less well, why didn't you do something about it?

OP posts:

BalloonSlayer · 14/10/2012 08:52

I don't understand the Levels thing either. If you google SATS levels like here it says that Level 8 is only available in Maths.

Yet on Mumsnet, loads of people's DCs are getting Level 8s or have them as targets.

I don't get it . . . Can someone explain why some schools go higher than Level 7 and some don't?

Original poster

seeker · 14/10/2012 08:57

Level 8 is only available in maths.

OP posts:

BalloonSlayer · 14/10/2012 09:01

So why are people's DCs upthread on here getting Level 8s when they are in Year 7?

Ouluckyduck · 14/10/2012 09:05

I am absolutely flabbergasted that it could be regarded as a negative thing that I look at my child's school books! I am interested to see what she is learning and I do want to see the teacher's comments, and I really thought everybody does that?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 14/10/2012 09:11

Tbh I think the whole level thing is a bit bonkers. As I've said on another thread a child may be awarded a level 8 for a half term or a piece of work early on, but they've only been taught a small part of the curriculum for that subject. It doesn't necc. mean that they are level 8 for the whole of that subject.

As you might have gathered from my post earlier in the thread, I take the whole thing with a massive pinch of salt.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 14/10/2012 09:15

I don't think ks3 sats happen any more do they???? I think that level 8s for subjects other than maths must be a level made up by the individual school for children who meet level 7 criteria early.

TheFallenMadonna · 14/10/2012 09:22

No KS3 SATs, but we still have to report end of key stage levels. As far as I can see, there is no validation of this process.

Original poster

seeker · 14/10/2012 09:36

ouluckyduck- you and me both. I disengaged at the phrase "poking about"

OP posts:

BalloonSlayer · 14/10/2012 09:44

My DS has a target of Level 7a for Maths in Year 9. He is good at Maths and I can see him getting an A or even A* at GCSE if he works hard.

DD is in Year 6 and according to her teacher she is better at Maths than DS. She will be doing the Level 6 SATS paper for Maths - teacher said that DS would have done this too but they have only just started doing it. I expect DD will be coached and coached by the school - she'll love this, the little swot! - and may very well get L6.

I also expect that her Year 9 Maths target will also be 7a.

My instinct about it is that Level 8 Maths targets are not for kids who are "good at Maths," but for those children who are incredible whizz-kids at maths, who go on to do it at A Level and even as a degree, (and who grow up to be like the bloke DH used to work with who used to meet his mates in the pub and they all took their calculators with them ) I don't think either of my DCs are that good.

MaureenCognito · 14/10/2012 09:45

Is normal to look at books

Knowing kids levels off the top of your head is very helicopter.

TheFallenMadonna · 14/10/2012 09:49

I look in DS's books. I'm interested. Blimey, my job is education. It'd be odd of I wasn't interested in that of my own children!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 14/10/2012 09:51

Grrr, lost my post when the site went down.

Thanks TFM. I guess if there isn't validation then all the levels show is the progress your child is or isn't making. If the numbers in general are going up then it doesn't actually matter about the actual level awarded?

noblegiraffe · 14/10/2012 09:52

Balloon, if your DD gets a level 6 in Y6 in maths then she should absolutely get a level 8 in Y9, it would be an incredible failing on the part of the school if she didn't!

Level 8s aren't reserved for maths geeks, all of our top set and a good proportion of our second set would be expected to get one.

I also think it's a shame that you seem to have already written off A-level maths for her, it's an excellent choice of A-level for many paths, not just a degree in maths.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 14/10/2012 09:57

It's not very helicopter for people with good memories for numbers MC. Some people can glance at numbers and remember them yet can't learn names no matter how hard they try!

BalloonSlayer · 14/10/2012 09:59

Really noble?

Ooh that's gratifying to know. Actually I haven't written off A Level Maths for her, I actually have very high hopes for all my DCs (higher than I would ever admit to anyone other than DH!)

But as I say, DS1 is in top set, and is doing well but his target is 7a. I think he would have to be exceptional in his school to get a Level 8 target.

Original poster

seeker · 14/10/2012 10:18

I've just dug out dd's year 7 report and she was working at level 5a at maths in march of year 7.

She got an A for GSCE. Admittedly, she did come out with her results sheet laughing hysterically and wondering whether she had the wrong one, but it was definitely an A!

So, don't, whatever you do, assume that it's only the 6s and 7s who can aim for As.

OP posts:

maree1 · 14/10/2012 13:07

You won't be a git for having expectations. Many other parents have them too. Speak out.

Madmog · 14/10/2012 19:01

My daughter's English level is 5.25 (personally I thought it would have been a bit higher), and she is working towards a level of 7.25 at end of KS3. She is in top set.

In top sets for Science and French, but no idea of current level - she got 100% in French test and level 5 in Science SATS.

As regards marked work, tutors all seem to do a different system. In French she got A+, her friend got B+ which apparently meant she got everything right but there were spelling errors. A sticker in DT is really good, but my daughters was marked with a merit and the others aren't, so guess this is really good? Some do a traffic light system, green just what tutor looking for, amber ok red not acceptable, do again, a + with it means they've put in a lot of effort. She's constanlty getting a G+ in these.

Others are marking on a level being 3, 4 and 5 and she's getting a 3 and has been told she isn't putting enough into them and everyone else had a 4 in history. She can't be good at everything, but something doesn't sound right given that she does so well in other subjects.

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