How do geeks fit in mixed ability classes?

[MaddestMother]

Hi All,
After much deliberation and stress on my part as to where to send DD to secondary school, last week she started at our local comp. The school has had improving grades over the last few years and has great facilities but I have always had nagging doubts about how she would fit in at secondary. She's the most lovely person I know, kind and thoughtful, great sense of humour and has always worked really hard at school. She is quite geeky and always speaks properly, maybe comes across as a little posh but not in a snobbish way.

She went to a small village primary where she had a good set of likeminded friends and absolutely loved it, however, at the end of year 6 they split up and her good friends have gone to 3 different schools. DD does have children she knows at the comp but they aren't her great friends.

So, first day at big school she went off full of enthusiasm but came home very sullen and after a little probing burst into tears. She has nobody she knows in any of her classes and apparently some of the other children in her classes were talking and messing about which she found distracting, she also said that a couple of the children can't read. She has the same group (mixed up from different tutor groups) in every class, so I assume they are all mixed ability. I asked my friend's daughter (yr 11) who said that she had heard a rumour that the new yr7s were going to be taught in mixed ability rather than putting them in sets.

DD came home yesterday saying a couple of boys in her class are teasing her for answering questions in class (repeating what she says in a mocking voice) and most of the girls won't talk to her as they're all trying to be cool and impress the boys! DD isn't really into boys/makeup/carrying a silly handbag that you cant fit your lunch in. She just wants to be herself and be liked for who she is!!
There is a parents evening tomorrow, I don't want to go in and rant but I can feel it brewing!! Their website says they will be set from year 7 in maths, english & science but this clearly hasn't happened I just don't know how she's going to cope in the longterm if this is how it has to be...
Sorry it's a bit long :)

noble mixed abilty must be a flipping nightmare for teachers. Roll on half term for you .

It sounds more as though the mix of behaviour/attitude is the problem more than the mix of ability, and that would be what I'd want to question if talking to the teacher. Always be wary of assuming that bright = well behaved!

Thanks mumslife, that does give me some hope! DD passed the audition for the choir today so was happy about that but the girl she thought she had made friends with yesterday is not interested today and she spent most of lunchtime on her own :( I just wish they could see her for who she is! She's saying she doesn't want to go back next week so I think I'm going to have a battle on Monday. Will definitely have to phone the tutor now as I can't stand to see her like this.

I saw one of the other mums I know who had been for a meeting with the SENCO today, apparently he said that they will be in mixed ability everything until year 9. This is so the brighter pupils can inspire and encourage the ones who struggle I've been looking at the websites for the local private schools...

What a lovely post, mumslife

mumslife I also find that very reassuring! Thank you! My yr 7 daughter is currently living in the library at lunchtimes.

I was exactly the same as your daughter when I started secondary ten years ago. My story isn't so positive, so please feel free to ignore me, but I just want to say that it doesn't always get better.

I was bullied quite for the five years I was at the school. I just gave up putting my hand up in class after Yr 7. All my reports said "Green knows the answers, but doesn't contribute in class". I tried to lose my "posh" accent, and in the end to not talk at all at school. I lived in the library or the hall where packed lunched were eaten, with a book. I just switched off from education, because the work was so easy for me. This caused huge problems when I moved to grammar school for A-levels, because I'd never been in a class where everyone was at my level, and the work was hard. I didn't know how to learn or revise because I'd never had to try before.

I did have a few friends, but because I was interested in such different things, they weren't strong and I was frequently teased by those I thought were my friends.

School were no help, save for one or two teachers who let me stay in their office/classroom if I needed to escape. Thank you Miss Long, even though I hated your subject, you were so kind to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: please, please watch out for your daughter. I really hope she finds a niche and some lovely friends.

bear in mind the focus of the first few weeks is getting the children settled in and used to the new school and the new regime.
I find it very hard to believe there would be no setting for maths until Y9. My DCs are at grammar school where they don't set for maths in the first year but the majority of the children are able at maths so it isn't an issue.However the local comps that we visited all set either aftrer 4 weeks or after the first half term.i think it is much better to set once the teachers have got to know the kids a bit.SATS tests are 5+ months out of date already and CATS tests are not a very good indicator as teh kids are often stressed by their new school when they do them.

Thanks for all your input and support everyone!

I spoke to her tutor yesterday who said he will email DD's teachers to make them aware of my concerns. He was a bit non committal when I asked about setting procedures saying he thought they were in sets for maths but they would be looking at how they were set after cats tests after half term. I'll see what they say at the meeting because everyone I've spoken to has told me a different story so far.

DD obviously wasn't keen to go to school this morning, had stomach pains (caused by stress?) and was upset as she had her first detention for forgetting her PE socks yesterday which seems very harsh! (I packed her PE kit, maybe I should go in and take the blame ). She says that nobody talks to her in class and one girl got up and moved when she sat next to her. Tutor says that lots of children find it hard when they start at secondary but they can't make children like each other. I can kind of see his point but where does that leave DD? We agreed to talk again in 2 weeks to see how she's progressing.

I don't want her to have the same problems you did Green, TBH, I feel that I want to move her, I know there is a faith school (fortunately our faith) not too far away which is much smaller and seems a less harsh environment than her current school. It's a new free school (formerly independent) so doesn't have a track record as such but they seem to have a good ethos. The only other options I could consider are private, I spoke to one the other day and they seemed keen, (I know they are struggling with numbers) they said they may be able to offer up to 50% bursary if DD did well in their test which I could just about manage but would mean no holidays, car downgrade, me going back to work full time... I suppose it's down to where she feels happy really which we couldn't know until she went there.

I've been following this thread with lots of interest and trying hard not to comment but now you've said you feel like moving her, thank goodness. Please move her. That school sounds utterly wrong for her. I felt like crying when I read how excited she felt on her first day and how deflated she was by the end of it. School shouldn't be like this. Her enthusiasm for learning should be caught and developed from day one, not throttled out of her by peers who don't like learning or bright children.

No setting until Yr 9 is a dreadful idea. Look for other schools. Let her know her attitude is good and you will try to find a school that deserves it. Meantime, if not, help her with coping and concentration strategies and keep a look out for similar girls (or boys) who are geeky and friendless and lovely and hardworking.

Very best of luck to her.

Please don't uproot her now without even giving it a chance, keep the option in the back of your head for if things don't improve but it will just mean even more upheaval which will do nothing for her self-esteem.
My eldest is now in year 9 and is very quiet and shy, he found the transition to senior school (from a small private primary) hard at first and I was tempted to throw in the towel and go for the small private secondary that we'd turned down for the state place. Once he found his feet, and a like-minded group of friends (computer games club!) he has grown in confidence and is happy to be himself at school, ignoring the football-mad rough types and doing just fine.
Trust your instincts that made you choose the school in the first place and support her the best you can, chances are everything will be fine and if not (I think you need at least 2 terms to be sure), you can move her next year.

i agree. she to give it a chance!
They are all young and going through a very scary experience and all jockeying for position in the pecking order.Also rememeber your DD will put her own slant on things (she will remember the bad things that have happened that day, more than the good things)
I remember my DS1 being in tears that he had no friends and no-one spoke to him.Then one day her forgot his swimming kit and I brought it up to school and spotted him coming out of a doorway surrounded by a group of boys laughing and joking.
Don't move her yet .

Oh Racingheart, I almost cried when I read you post, you sound so caring

DD had a better day today by the sound of it, she has been asked by the music teacher to play in the recorder ensemble at the open evening, so that has given her a boost. Still no nice new friends but only one person has been mean to her today and DD says this girl has been one of the worst from the start. I told DD if it happens again to ask (in a matter of fact way) if she's done something to offend this girl as it seems like she has a problem with DD. DD is quite tall and broad so I don't think she'll get beaten up!!

I've found out about other schools open days/evenings and just had a chat to DD who would like to go and have a look around them to see how she feels in the other schools. I know they are always trying to show their best assets at these events so will go with our sensible heads on. I need to have a good plan B so if things don't improve (or get worse) I know what to do. I couldn't leave her this unhappy for a full year, I'm thinking Xmas at the latest.

I would give it until Christmas but have a plan B in place, so that you could change schools next term if you and your dd have the same concerns.

My dd experienced frequent low-level nastiness from the other girls in her class from Y4 onwards and it was extremely upsetting. When it came to choosing secondary schools, I was keen for her to make a fresh start, in a different type of school. She has just started Y7 in an independent school that is moderately selective and takes children from a wide range of abilities.

My dd says that one of the most positive aspects of the school is that all the other children are motivated to learn and are keen to play a full part in school life. She is not therefore made to feel different because she loves learning and is prepared to work hard.

I do hope that you manage to sort things out for your dd and wish her well.

I'd give it until half term and no longer... Wish my parents had been as aware and engaged as you and it hadn't taken them five years to 'rescue' me. The school I changed to was a revelation. But the bullying, crap education and feeling I did not belong has affected my confidence and sense of self identity right through the rest of my education and into adult life.

I don't think the problem is so much the lack of setting but the whole ethos of the school. A good school should encourage learning for all its pupils, not just those in the top set. DS has just started secondary in a school where they don't set until Y9 in all subjects. I was a bit concerned about this idea but had long chat with the tutors before choosing the school and they assured me that the mixed ability would not be a barrier to any child being challenged. DS is the kind of child who is keen to answer all questions in class, and is happily collecting his house points.

Have you spoken with the parents of her friends who have gone to the other secondary schools in your area to see how their children are settling in, and what seems to be the ethos of those other schools? Just thinking of checking out all the options.

I agree with dimestar to give it til Christmas, push the school to see how they can help your DD settle in, but to investigate alternatives if she doesn't settle.

It all came to a crisis point on Thursday last week, most of the school were staying late to help at the open evening, food provided and time for choir to practice etc. I was at work when DD rang my mobile in a state of panic. She couldn't find anyone else from the choir and went to go in the dining hall but it was packed out. She couldn't face going in so found her way outside. Unfortunately the magnetic doors locked her out and she didn't know what to do so after flapping for a few minutes called me. I told her to knock on the door but she was too scared of looking stupid, there were other (bigger) students around but she said she couldn't ask them so I told her to hold tight while I phoned the school. Of course the school had diverted all their phones to the answer machine so I couldn't ask them to look for her. I phoned her back by which time she was in tears so I just dropped everything at work & drove down there.

When I arrived, fortunately one of the older pupils had found DD & taken her to the reception where she was sat puffy eyed looking very sorry for herself. I had a mini meltdown and said I needed to see a senior member of staff to discuss the problem. She just seemed so vulnerable! She used to be quite confident and outgoing but just seems to have gone into herself!

We saw the head of pastoral care on friday morning, he got all the details of the children who are causing most of the problems for DD and who she thinks she likes. He's going to ask for seating plans to be changed so DD can sit nearer the children who she perceives as more like her so hopefully the can form friendships. He also talked at length about how lots of them are putting on a front and things will settle down more soon.

I do hope DD can find some lovely friends like yours has mumslife, I'm sure there are lovely DC at this school, I just hope DD can find them soon! We are going to go to open days at other schools so we know what to do if things haven't improved by Xmas.

I could write a book on transition to Y7

I really sympathise with OP as my daughter struggled settling at secondary school and started with such high hopes. She was so shy she was quite intimidated by the loud, more forward girls but was sure from the start that she would rather be herself than follow the crowd. Lots of children struggle with the transition and my memories of my DD year 7 was that it was the most miserable of her life. The only time she ever cried going to school was after Christmas of Y7 when she had to go back, never ever at primary school. Secondary school is a teenage environment and many children aren't ready to cope with it at 11. I think those that aren't willing to or able to just blend into the prevailing culture for a quiet life find it harder, but why should they blend in? I think it shows a better character and as mumslife said, the nice kids find each other -it just takes a little longer because they are not so high profile.

My Ds is in Y13 now gained good GCSEs and AS results and has lots of friends. However she does not like the school, never has and I think this coloured her view on extra curricular stuff as she never wanted to stay beyond standard going home time. With hindsight I wonder if I should have pushed harder to get her to move schools, although she wouldn't entertain the idea at the time. Interestingly her very close freindship group now is made up of kids from 4 different local schools.

OP maybe your daughter needs more time, it's only been a coupel of weeks after all - but if there's any hint of bullying get it squashed. It may not mean she's immediately happy but at least she won't be in a hostile environment.
The secondary school environment is hard enough compared to priimary without there being specific nastiness. It sounds as if the Open evening problem was just a series of unfortunate events but the classroom issues really shouldn't be tolerated.

I'm glad the pastoral care teacher was able to suggest some positive steps. I'd recommend that you monitor things until Christmas, and then consider moving her if things do not settle down/she is unhappy.

Being stuck in a school that isn't right for you, without friends, is an awful way to spend an adolescence.

So glad the pastoral head is doing the job properly and taking active measures to make your DD's life more pleasant. But it makes my blood boil to read over and over that these children are arriving excited and with high hopes. Why aren't these hopes being fulfilled? Why is the transition such a war zone for so many. Teething troubles are one thing, but to have your confidence knocked away, to be weeping and fearful... School should not and need not be like this. There is something deeply wrong with our current system that so many comps reduce the brightest children to a neurotic heap within days.

I agree with NK2 Don't leave it too long. Like NK, I loathed school and wasn't taken out. I survived in the end, but it was no more than that: survived not thrived. On the surface all was well. I had lots of friends by Yr9 (none before) and got great A levels. But the feeling of being a misfit and the inability to feel at ease socially is life long.