Secondary school advice for someone who knows nothing about the British system

[EscapeInThePark]

So I am French and have no idea how the secondary school system really works here.
My oldest dc is in Y5 so I am starting to look at school around. But I would like to know what it is that I really need to check/know.

So far I have gathered that not all schools provide the same options at GCSE so that might make a difference (ds is doing well in maths and could potentially do further in maths/science).
There is also the issue of how well is the school doing. Is being in a better rated school really makes a huge difference later on (ie GCSE, A levels and then applying to Uni)?
What I am not so sure is if you have to attend the same secondary for GCSE and A levels or is it quite common for children to move at that stage?

Any comments would be really welcome.

All schools will offer the core subjects to GCSE. All pupils have to be offered to chance to do 3 sciences if capable. Some Subjects offered may differ French or German for example. Some may offer dance some may not. The schools website should give details.

Ofsted doesn't really mean as much as people say, and may be out of date. There is no substitute for looking round a school yourself (plenty of threads on here advising what to look for).

If a school has a 6th form most kids will go there, but nothing to stop a child moving elsewhere for A levels. Some schools don't have 6th forms so obviously pupils hae to go elsewhere

HTH

We are currently in the French education system so may be able to answer from a French/British viewpoint. Like colleges in France, secondary schools will do core subjects and then pupils will be able to (timetable allowing) pursue GCSEs in subjects that interest them. They will be tested on all these subjects (unlike the brevet where it is just maths, french and histo-geo). I think being in a better rated school in the UK will be an indicator of other issues at the school eg: pupil background, discipline etc.. Unlike in France where schools tend to be a mix of pupils from all backgrounds (especially in rural areas) there is more emphasis on the Ofsted reports to indicate to parents the performance of the schools. Like in France, most primary schools will have feeder secondary schools - where the majority of pupils will go. In the UK religious schools (CofE or Catholic) tend to be seen by some as providing better pastoral care. Unlike in France these are usually free and not seen as privee. Hope this makes sense and has answered some queries - best of luck

yes it does make sense. Thanks for the parallel between the twos.

Can I ask what is the effect of being in a certain school re applying to Uni? I have seen quite a few threads on here where, in effect, some people were saying that if you are not in X or Y schools, the top Uni would not even bother to look at the application.
Obviously this is very early on to be able to think about it now, but I would really hate it to close doors just because he didn't go the right school in our area (I have my French cap on there lol).

I am also getting very confused re some terminology (AS advised I have done some reading again on here). I get the GCSE but what is the English Bacc and BTEC?

The choice of school/sixth form should not have any bearing on the university procedure. If anything there is more pressure for the better universities (known as the Russell Group) to take students from poorer backgrounds. Also by the time your DS goes to university the admittance procedures will probably have changed. Now you apply to University before you have your A level results but this is likely to change soon and therefore selection from universities will be less about what school you went to and more about your academic record and personal statement. A levels are similar to the Bac general. However unlike the Bac general you choose about 3 or 4 subjects and study them in detail. You do not do the Bac L/S or ES. A levels are meant to be more detailed but it does mean that you miss out on the "all rounded" education you get with the French Bac. BTEC is similar to a Bac pro. The UK has a Bac (known as the IB) - this is similar to the French Bac general but is still not established enough to get an idea of whether it is seen as better or regarded the same by universities. A lot of private schools are keen to do the IB as it is seen as more rounded. Remember if you go to a secondary school that you are not happy with then you can always change when it's time for sixth form - bit like college/lycee in this respect except they change at 16 in UK not 14 as in France.

The English Bacc simply means that a pupil has gained GCSE passes (grade C or above) in English, Maths, science, a language (French, Spanish or German are the most usual options) and either History or Geography. More academic schools will have a higher percentage of pupils achieving the Bacc.

The national average for 5 or more GCSE passes including Maths and English is 53% - schools which achieve less than this may be poor schools or they may have a challenging intake (which brings its own problems).

Interesting re admission procedures. If that is the case, you are right, it will change things quite a bit.

The admissions process is NOT likely to change for the next 10 years although certain stakeholders would like it to!

However the school your dc is at is never used as a selection criteria (although many elite school parents like to think the education their dcs get will give them the edge!). GCSE results, AS results, the personal statement, Final grade predictions,interview performance (if interciewed) and maybe work experience for some subjects will be determining factors.

If your dc goes to a spectacularly poor school in terms of results they may have a slightly lower offer.

Okay some mistakes. The IB has been around a very very long time, it is more recent Baccalurates such as the AQA one which are new. The IB is very highly regarded, but it is best to go to a school or college which has been offering it and performed well for some time (mainly private, but not all). Newer Baccaluarates are actually just a wrapping for A'levels and some other aspects such as voluntary work and extended projects.
The EBac is just something totally made up by the government, it is based on getting 5 GCSEs including: Maths, English, Science, a MFL and either Geography or History. Universities pay no attention to it at present, it is mainly for the government to compare schools.
Which school you go to has no influence on Universities looking at you, but some schools get much better grades for A'level so are more likely to send pupils to Oxbridge (often because they select their pupils on intelligence at 11/13). Some schools also are more knowledgeable about sending pupils to Oxbridge.

Oh and BTEC is generally thought of as more vocational and less academic than A levels - it can be more difficult to get a place at a top university with BTEC rather than A levels

One thing to consider re: languages is if your DC speak fluent French it may not matter if the school offers French. I worked at a school where it was common practice for students who had another language from home (including those that would not be commonly taught, such as Greek) to sit that GCSE/A Level early and outside normal lessons both to get an extra qualification and to prove their capabilities on paper. It is possible for a school to enter a single student and I think the student was expected to study for those exams at home - the school only acted as the exam centre rather than an educator and exam centre.

A university may make a lower offer to a child from a poor school, but that child will find it concomitantly harder to achieve good grades/a decent education, so I wouldn't go for a poorly performing school unless you have zero choice.

Oh god, I am completely lost with all the abbreviations.
Please could you explain IB, AQA, EBAc and the baccalaureate. What is the difference between the last one and the EBAc for example???

Good point re languages. I think one of the secondary here let children sit their CSE and A levels early with bilingual children but will have to look for that.

Also what about the 'more knowledgeable to send pupils to Oxbridge'? Do you mean to stir pupils in the right direction so they get more chances?

Sorry a lot of questions that probably sounds very obvious to you.

The school in the area aren't poorly performing as far as I know. I know that one is 'better' than the other (or better regarded by parents here) but I am not sure that success rate are that different tbh.

Another thing I have noticed is that the schools can have a big sign saying they are an 'IT and science secondary school' whereas another would be 'Performing arts and English literature school' (or something of that effect...).
Does it mean that the school has a 'speciality' and if you have a child who is keen on literacy then the one specialized in It & science might not be the right one for her?

As you are looking ahead, it might be worth Googling the Russell Group's (leading universities) leaflet 'Informed Choices', which makes it explicit which A levels they consider academically demanding and which they don't -- a high presence of the second sort in a sixth form's offer tells you something about the type of school it is.

Parts of the UK secondary school system are selective - in some areas (Kent for instance) there are grammar schools which select their intake based on the results of the 11+ exam which is taken in year 6 (I think). These tend to be high-achieving academically, although so are better comprehensives, and in any case you may live in an area where all the schools are comprehensive. Selective schools do admit some children from out of area, although they require higher test scores. The church schools mentioned above select most of their intake from families who can demonstrate that they are committed to the religion in question. Again they tend to be high-achieving.

You will also want to think about length of journey to school. I teach in a selective school and some of our students have very long journeys. Evidently the parents & students think this worth it, but it must cut down on the children's social life where they live. Having said that, I'm sure it's worth travelling to get to the right sixth form -- but maybe at 11 years old it's as important to be with friends as long as the school is all right.

I also have the impression that more UK schools are single-sex than in France, although sixth forms are often mixed, even if the main school remains single sex.

You're definitely not thinking about this too early!

International Baccalaureate (IB) is an international qualification taken over two years in sixth form - it's an alternative to A level for university admission. Students do one set of final exams at the end of the two years, and study six subjects, three at Higher Level, three at Standard Level, as well as philosophy (Theory of Knowledge), an extended essay in a subject of their choice, and they put together a portfolio of Creativity, Action & Service activities (creative arts, volunteering, fundraising etc).

It's not offered in very many state schools, but it would be a good sign of how seriously the school takes its sixth form if it is. Your son could potentially take some of his subjects in French/take French Higher Level as an extra.

As a previous poster said, it's a minority qualification (about 3% of UK students), however it's growing, it's a global qualification that requires students to study a foreign language, Maths and English in the sixth form and universities like it because IB students have developed more independent study skills and less of them drop out from university. I teach IB and find it a much more rigorous qualification than A level. As it's international, it's not subject to the political interference that A level suffers from.

In response to your last question about specialisms - they were a way for schools to get more funding under the previous government. Our school has about 3! They don't mean much in practice now, other than an IT school might have better computers, a performing arts school might have a nice dance studio, etc. It certainly doesn't mean a child without an interest in that speciality will have a problem, as all have to offer the full curriculum.

Hope that helps -- it is complicated...

Oh, actually I think 'academies' maybe can avoid offering the full curriculum/change the curriculum as they are free from local authority control. It is complicated!!

I'd agree that a specialism really just means the school got a dollop of cash from the government to spend on resources and best to ignore it when choosing schools.

What I would warn you about though is the fiendishly complicated admissions systems that vary between LEA (local education authority) to LEA. You may spend lots of time researching visiting and choosing your perfect school to find that your ds doesn't get in because it's so popular (even if it's the closest school to your house). Some LEAs use catchment areas (if you live in certain streets you will get in) others use ballots (if the school is over-subscribed there's a lottery) others use distance. Our LEA gave priority to some rural groups over others living next door to the school. Do your homework to avoid disappointment.

Thank you! that clarifies quite a few things I have to say.

I will check the LEA admissions system. I have the feeling that they use catchment areas which would mean we would have just one choice anyway....
My understanding of academies is patchy to say the least but I am yet to find someone who finds them really good so I really hope that none of the schools around will want to go down that road.

I will check re subjects and what they offering. It will be a good indicator.
Again I am not saying that dcs will go to Oxbridge but it would be a shame he couldn't do it just because the subjects he needs just aren't there.

Even if a LEA uses catchments that never means you can't apply to other schools, and if you are religious you are always qualified for C of E or Catholic schools. However if you live too far away from a school, or outside its catchment area, or don't meet the religious entry criteria you may have only a very small chance of getting a place. However legally you can apply to any school in the country and if there is a place they have to give it to you (it is up to you to get your child there unless it is the nearest school with a place).

And being in catchment doesn't guarantee you a place either!

Yes you can apply for schools in other LEAs (you have to apply to your LEA though, and they pass your application on). It shoudln't make any difference whether you live outside a borough to your application, unless the admissions criteria includes a catchment area and that catchment just happens to fall on a borough boundary (that's not supposed to happen though....).

Phineyj I have checked the leaflet from the Russel's group and it's really good! Very clear explanation as to what is needed, not needed and therefore what could be potentially important for GCSE and A levels.

On the way, I have learnt that AS levels actually count for 50% of the mark for the A levels. For whatever reasons, I thought they were more like a warm up and weren't that important !

So thank you for that.