So, my PFB Yr 8 is in the third set for everything academic, except English (set 2). Not what I hoped and dreamed for him.

[swanthingafteranother]

He seems happy enough...likes meeting all the new people in the different sets but he is bad at sport too. I feel a bit like this is the slippery slope downhill; I feel like we were very involved last year, trying to get him to concentrate, turn in good work, but we failed at last hurdle, revision for the setting exams. Should I just leave him to find his level or push push push him back up...They are setted in Maths, Science, English and Spanish. He received very mediocre marks for all his Year 7 exams, but unfortunately his form tutor was ill/off sick so I never really got chance to discuss any of this with her. And of course I've only just learnt which set he is in for the 4 subjects that are setted.
Is this a discussion I should be having with Head of Year 8, now, or should I leave it till he settles into term again. Anecdotally it is said that the lowest two sets in the school get less input, although I don't know how much of this to believe. He is also having some behavioural problems at school, although he behaves well in class and is polite to teachers etc..
Does it matter which set he is in, expectation-wise, from the teachers point of view?

Maybe he's having behavioural issues because of the pressure you're putting on him? Some children are academic, some like sport and others have different strengths. If he's happy then he's happy. Forcing him to 'be better' will get you nowhere.

How many sets are there?

Realistically you can encourage hard work but you can't make him more academic and as you've discovered you can't sit the exams for him.

Maybe he'll be a plumber or a nursery nurse or something else entirely, nothing wrong with that.

Do you truly think he is in the wrong sets for his actual ability? or are they just not the sts you were holing he would be in?

do you think he is in the wrong set?
if not then i don't think there is much you can do except for helping him to work, do his best, do extra stuff (Letts books etc..) and hope he gets moved up.

If he was more academic at primary and gone downhill since secondary would be having a word. If he tried his very best and you supported him then not everyone can be in the top set. However if you feel the school is not demanding academically to stretch him or he is not trying then maybe have a word to discuss options. You could do extra work with him you really know your Son and how he has performed in the past.

Is it a huge issue if he isn't top set?

Maybe you are helping and involved too much in homework so that when he comes to exam time he isn't able to do it independently?

I think I'mnotmymum makes a valid point.

I went from being top of the class in primary to close to the bottom of the class at secondary school. I hardly ever did my homework and put absolutely zero effort into everything. I needed pushing.

If however you feel that he has reached his natural level he needs encouragement rather than pushing.

good point about the homework. Except we didn't even look at some subjects, and those are the ones he has really bombed in. He slid down from 2nd set Maths, his RE report was v mediocre after excellent start. It is as if he can't be bothered to do more than minimum.
However, mid way through Yr 7 we left him to do his own thing to some extent...we no longer interfered or corrected his work in RE or History, we never paid any attention to the Spanish or Maths or Science from the beginning, as they were worksheets which he just got on with in his own fashion. However, what I see now is that we should have paid MORE attention to those subjects, not less, perhaps testing him or checking his homework a bit.

I never expected him to be top set in anything but he started so well in class work in Science and Spanish, and he is quick and smart, so it is more to do with rushing through work and not really understanding what is expected. Report from last year, said he should be doing better than he was.

I suppose what I want to know is how fixed sets are. There are four sets, and no sets except in Maths for first year.

In my heart of hearts, I believe that like me he should be in 3rd for Maths, but 2nd for the other subjects, and the other academic subjects he will be in for next year (another two sets to come, in Hist and RE)
I just don't know if this is something I'm allowed to voice to the teachers! I believe he is capable of it, just not doing enough work to achieve it, and cruising/skimming the curriculum to some extent.

Of course you're allowed to raise this with the teachers!

Sets are much more fluid in some schools than others- you really need to go in and talk to his form tutor.

Of course you are allowed to voice your concerns and ask the teachers for advice - it's what they are there for, and any school that doesn't welcome discussion with parents isn't doing it's job properly.
Yr 8-9 is a bit of a tricky time as kids know fine well that they will be giving up some subjects before GCSE. Is it worth having a talk with your son about which subjects he likes and sees himself pursuing to GCSE, so that you can concentrate efforts in those areas. You don't want him finding that he isn't being encouraged to take subjects that he actually likes because he hasn't made enough effort now.
Rather than pressuring him to work harder, perhaps a discussion about the future and the consequences of his current course of (in)action might be more productive.

I also think he is dyspraxic, but that is another thread Senco is investigating that aspect...it is as if his "smartness" is being trumped by his organisational issues and general all over the place-ness, so he has given up in a way bothering, with things he thinks he can't get right.

My 2 DSs both buckled down of their own accord at the start of y10 when they started their gcse courses . It is very common for boys to 'come' to education later on.The big danger is by pushing them and switching them off.

Swanthing - I'm dyspraxic and I couldn't get my act together with the organisational side of secondary school which I think played a part in my poor attitude.

Definitely get help and try to come up with some strategies to help with organising himself.

If this is a lack of progress issue, talk to the school.

If it an ability issue, please support him and not knock his self esteem with negative banter.

Bog standard, non selective, comp and my daughter has just left with English Lit and Lang (both at Grade C) which she got from set 4 of 5. And core and additional Science GCSEs at Grade C and in years 7,8 and 9 was in set 5 of 5! But she worked consistently hard to improve her work and push herself, so that she made great progress. Chucking hard stuff at her, within a high set, when she wasn't ready wouldn't have done her any good at all.

So, help him to work hard and progress and nurture any talents he has to promote his own self esteem.

My son has just started yr 8. His year end report was in fact quite bad, attainment in most lesson was very good, but much of the comments pointed out this was despite of his lack of effort, and in english both attainment and effort weren't great.

I have heard from other parents that their sons effort improved by the end of yr 8/ beginning yr 9

Same here, DS improved greatly from Y8 to Y9, but it took some very straight talking from the teachers for this to happen. They told him it was as much behaviour as academic ability that got you moved up a set. They did not want the higher sets disrupted with bad behaviour.

Talk the school about how you can support him. But I think most importantly you could help him to find his passion and encourage and nurture that passion whatever it might be. I work with children of this age and the variety of interests and passions is amazing.

OP when you talk to the school about setting ask them on what basis they make their decisions.

DD's school for example take the view that it is about attitude as well as ability. For example some girls were moved out of the top sets for being insufficinetly motivated. If they won't give of their best they won't perform to top set standards seemed to be the view.

I think it came as a bit of a shock to a few bright coasters . Some of them immdeictaely upped their game and were put back into top set, but the ones who couldn't or wouldn't do so stayed put or went down further.

I'm feeling slightly brighter, since I discovered that ds1 is not in any set for Science - dont know what gave me the impression he is in Set 3 (possibly a garbled 12 year old version of school day) so it was a bit of a storm in a teacup.. This evening we have a curriculum meeting at school so I shall find out then about the setting policy.
Phew, so, they don't set in Geography, DT, Art, History, RE or PE or Science, until year 9...

Thank you everybody for your ideas.

Both my DSs were in set 8 out of 9 for maths, both got Bs at higher tier ... and now it is all forgotten.

One thing to bear in mind is that children develop at very different rates. I've noticed in my DS's year group there has been dramatic movement up and down between the sets over time.