E grade at AS Level Chemistry-should medicine dream be forgotten?

[zara77]

Hi Everyone
Really need some honest advice. My dd got an E grade at Chemistry AS Level. She got 1 A,2 B in other subjects. She had her heart set on medicine. But we have looked online and most medical schools require Chemistry. Post Grad Medicine is tough to get into,so she is a little lost. Her school recommends, her playing to her academic strengths and pursue a totally different degree. I don't really want her to do 4 A Levels but am getting the Chemistry remarked. My dd wants to resit the exam but i am concerned too much focus on one subject will let her down in her other subjects.
Should we follow the Schools advice? Would a tutor in Chemistry make a difference?
Thank you all in advance for your input.
Zara

It might be worth emailing some university departments, but I applied for medicine and you need high grades (A - A*) in all four subjects, more than one science topic to have a good chance. There's so much competition.

A postgrad course would be an option but I'd look into costing - I believe some people get NHS funding but this is a lot less than a student loan, and you'd need to support her financially almost completely unless she took a year out to save. Working alongside a medical degree is almost impossible, especially the amount of hours she would need.

American or European universities are an option, but she'd need to make sure they were transferable to the UK if she wants to work here, and again look at the funding situation.

Nursing, mental health, nutrition etc are all less competitive, or a French degree could put her in good standing for a career in business or translation. It probably wouldn't get her onto a post grad med course though - they tend to need a first/very high 2:1 in a science, and if she struggled at GCSE that might simply not be possible.

I was really shocked at how much chemistry was in my first year - I did much more chemistry and physics than biology, and it was really hard. I got As across the board for the sciences, but it was still so difficult.

I hope your daughter doesn't feel too down. I share her dream, and it's tough when obstacles come in the way, but being realistic could help her save a lot of wasted years and heartache.

What do the school think she should do? They'll know her strengths, and may suggest things she hasn't considered yet.

I hope this helps.

If her A is in french and the 2 Bs are biology and maths I think you have to be realistic and medicine is not for her. The first thing to do is check whether there has been a mistake with her chemistry, but even 3 Bs in the sciences is not going to help (unless at a seriously sink school).
Entry to postgraduate medicine is just as competitive or more than undergraduate.
Most medicine applicants sail through AS level sciences with high As and alot still do not make it onto the degree first time.
As said above there are many other opportunities in the 'caring' professions which do not require such ridiculously high grades.

If the paper isn't moved up from an E, is it even going to be numerically possible to shift it up to the A at A2, which is what a med school will require (probably particularly if they see a weak AS)? Surely the maximum on full marks at A2 would be a B?

In addition to having the paper re-marked, it is possible to request a copy of your dds actual marked paper back from the exam board and this will show clearly where she lost her marks.
Many students lose marks in AS level Chemistry because they are still answering questions as if they were GCSEs. Much more detail is needed to gain the marks at AS level - even though some of the questions may look similar and it could be that her grade would improve with a resit. Unfortunately some medical schools do not consider resits for medical school, but there are many other medical related degrees so would not rule this out yet!

Just read through all the responses. She got 7A* and 5A GCSE. She has always been at the top end of her year group-she is in a great school. She is still wanting medicine but the idea behind french degree-is that she wants to work with the poor in places, figuring that french is spoken widely. It seems post grad medicine is the only option.

As people have already pointed out, why doesn't she initially train as a nurse or midwife and try and get into medicine as a mature student later on? There are other types of charity worker apart from medical? Friend of my sister's is actually an artist as is her husband and they set up a charity in Cambodia to educate and support orphans after adopting a child from that country and are currently living there.

zara77. The only way to know what qualifications are acceptable by medical schools is to read their prospectuses. The requirements change every single year and there is a lot of incorrect information about. . I have said it before, but choosing the right University to suit your strengths should be a degree in itself.

I think she needs to spend some time thinking very carefully about what motivates her career-wise. Is she attracted more strongly to the caring/interacting with people side of things, or the science side of things? Why does she think that being a doctor is the only way to help people in poor countries? Is it the status/glamour of being a doctor she is attracted to? Is that why she is discounting other healthcare careers?

IME medical students tend to be very strongly science oriented people who also have good people skills. Her GCSEs do sound good, but I think unless she can get As in chemistry and maths (which might no longer be possible if that chemistry grade stays at an E) she simply cannot do medicine as a first degree. If the chemistry grade does go up, what it might be worth doing is dropping one subject (probably French) to concentrate on doing well enough in the other subjects to get As all round, and possibly plan to apply after her results, taking a gap year. If that does not look achievable, she needs to have a serious rethink, as she would struggle on a medical course otherwise.

TBH, medicine is not necessarily that great a career - the pay is not that great at the lower levels and the hours are very anti-social and difficult to combine with having a family in some specialties. You also have to keep taking very hard professional exams long after you have actually qualified. Lots of people also find they have to make compromises about what specialty they go into depending on what training places are available when they qualify - so even if she did do medicine she wouldn't necessarily end up in a specialty that can be readily used by overseas aid organisations. E.g. she would almost certainly have to have tropical disease/infectious disease experience to work in many places and she couldn't necessarily guarantee she would have it.

Get her to take a look at the Medecins Sans Frontieres website. They are currently recruiting people with good French in all kinds of areas: midwifery, clinical counselling, biomedical science, nutrition, epidemiology, logistics, civil engineering and sanitation. They don't just need medical doctors and surgeons: all of those skills are desperately needed in the developing world.

If she does do the postgrad route, I honestly think French is not a good idea as a first degree unless she could do combined Science+French, get a 1st or high 2.1 and work in care homes/as a clinical support worker in the vacation (a med student friend trained as a phlebotomist part time in the vac!).

You also need to think about time pressures: if she did the postgrad route she could be in her thirties before she was qualified to work in overseas aid medicine. By that point she might want a family and be unable to take overseas postings.

I know two people who are now doctors having done non-science A-levels. One of them started off with an arts degree, the other trained first as a nurse.
I don't think there is much point in studying prospectuses for the entry requirements for postgraduate medicine, because the chances are they will have changed by the time she gets to that point.
I would suggest she does a degree in her strongest subject (and pure degrees always look better than mixed ones). Meanwhile she should do lots of voluntary work etc, to test what it is that she really likes about medicine (if anything). Practical abilities and people skills can be more important than pure scientific genius. I wouldn't recommend tutoring at this stage; as other posters that said, if she has to be tutored to get a good grade in chemistry, then she will really struggle when she gets to medical school as an undergraduate. But as a graduate, if she is committed and determined, then anything is possible.

I've just re-read your thread title. I don't think you should ever forget a "dream" of that type. Yes, probably forget the idea of it as a first degree (subject to the remark etc); but give up on the idea completely - no.

Hi zara77. Your daughter sounds lovely and a caring person.

FairPhyllis beat me to it! I wanted to ask whether being a doctor is the most important thing for her or whether it is overseas aid she us mainly concerned with? As FP says, many orgs need help from people who are not doctors.

I work for the UN and I can tell her that lots of help is needed apart from direct medical aid. Along the way, even as admin staff, she could get involved with direct help, but also the translators, conference staff etc are working towards the same goals. Someone had to administer that help, even on (dangerous) location.

Let her look at the UN website and see the employment options (www.un.org/en/employment/) also WFP and FAO. There is so much need for people who think as your dd does and not just as doctors. I get the impression her school think she us more talented in languages. UN working langs are English and French ;-)

She doesn't have to give up on her dream, but she could alter it slightly, with the prospect of taking medicine down the line

All the best to her!!!

Not sure if this site is still totally up-to-date but there is some good general info about routes into medicine www.medschoolsonline.co.uk. As someone else said, it's worth talking to some of the medical schools for first hand information and advice.

I think there is practically 0% chance of someone without science A levels (or equivilant) getting into a UK medicine school these days.

As you can see in this summary chemistry is the most desirable A level and is an absolute requirement by nearly all Medical School. You do not need 4 A levels. This summary is regularly updated and is usually accurate but, as I mentioned before, the only definitive, info is in the Uni's prospectuses.

She is still wanting medicine but the idea behind french degree-is that she wants to work with the poor in places

That might be more achievable as a nurse or midwife. A Dr in the UK does a 5 or 6 year course, 2 years as a foundation doctor and then more exams / training. She would not be in a possition to work abroad as a Dr for about 10 years.

A nurse is fully qualified after three years.

The thing she will have to study lots of chemistry related subjects in some depth during medical degree: biochemistry, organic and physical chemistry, pharmacology etc. Without an applitude for the subject she would struggle to even pass her first year.

Morning Everyone, it is so wonderful to check on this thread,you all are so helpful. I decided to show dd this thread. She has written down all the differing suggestion and is looking up uni course(plus booking open days). I will look at the UN idea(i didn't even think that could be a possibility!). She only wanted to do medicine to help heal people(her words-not mine). Nursing sounds great to her-she will talk to her school about this option. She did french because her school advised her to-so that it was one slightly easier A Level for her. She has always been good with languages(though i do assure you-she doesn't get it from
me!). Have a lovely Sunday everyone and i will respond late evening.

Talking to one of colleagues the other day and her MIL is both a trained nurse and midwife. She is currently in Nepal working for VSO apparently both nursing and midwifery are very sought after professions in the developing world.

Just reading this thread takes me back nearly twenty years to my own Alevels, when it became glaringly obvious there was no way I was going to med school. Alevels just weren't for me. Not that I wasn't clever enough, I just wasn't suited to the exam type.

I went with what I enjoyed. Geology as it happens. I did a four-year B.Sc. Including a years sandwich placement, and had the chance to work out what I wanted (kind of). I had the chance of a Masters, which I passed well, in addition to my 2:1. I decided to work in Local Government, and took a job in Environmental Health.

An opportunity arose to more to a more generic role and after a few years, a role in Public Health became available. I work very closely with Consultants and Nurses now. I love my work. I also have the opportunity to train as a Consultant in Public Health myself, if I so choose. Yes, the girl who realised she was never going to be 'a doctor' has another bite at the cherry now.

I didn't expect that to happen, I didn't know that things would work out that way and I certainly didn't try to influence that outcome, it just happened. I was always going to stay in science and that I have a B.Sc. Keeps doors open that a B.A. Would have closed.

There are many paths to the same destination, I would wrongly suggest your daughter looks at other related disciplines, pharmacy, pharmmacology, biomedical sciences, nursing, hell, send her over to Geology, at she'll get to do some travelling :) e everything is so black and white at 17/18 and the more interesting degrees are the ones in 'pure' subjects that you don't get the chance to experience at the lower levels.

She can easily graduate in say pharmacology with french, which gives her even more options.

*strongly not wrongly lol, sorry!

OP I'm sorry to ear how upset your daughter is, but tell her to wait for the remark. Mistakes happen and there's no point feeling her dream of studying medicine is over until the fat lady sings!

My son has received an odd English GCSE result in similar circumstance. High A grade predicted in coursework, with an A/A* grade predicted overall. He's gained a low B grade and is more angry than upset, however this does not affect his career path and so now as devastating as your daughter's situation.

I hope you hear some good news soon, but it is sensible to talk to your daughter about other options. Maybe she's not explored these because she was so focused on studying medicine? She may even find an alternative course that suits her skills better?

Very good luck to her and I hope the remark comes back as an increased grade and/or she finds a wonderful preferred university course.

I only did Chemistry to O level, as the boiling acid shennanigans scared me off Higher Chem.

I did a Biology degree (1st), an MSc and eventually a PhD. I was offered Medicine as a post-grad for all of my 5 choices, all unconditional.

It did help that DH was a doctor, that my PhD supervisor was a medic, so I had kind of inside knowledge on the inner workings of the NHS. I never changed my name to DH's when I married, or mentioned him in the. Interview so there was no nepotism involved. It didn't seem to matter what altruisitic volunteering I hadn't done; my slightly more realistic views on medicine and life experience counted for an awful lot.

Keep going with her current subjects to A level. She could do a dual French/Biology degree and do placements in French research labs. This may even open the door for summer volunteering overseas in orphanges in Africa - her French will be damn useful.

The other option is an NHS Clinician Scientist. For Band 5 jobs, there will be a specific degree that qualifies you to apply for Band 5 Technologist jobs (bit routine and dull though). For Band 6 and above, the NHS offers post-graduate trainingbfor 3 years. Most applicants these days have a PhD.

Instead of going through the mill for 2013 entry, why doesn't she wait for her actual A level results and apply from there for 2014? I know it seems the end of the world, but a planned gap year hanging out volunteering in hospitals etc without the stress of applications, exams etc may enhance her application.

I was 34 when I applied. It reaaly doesn't matter if she takes a slightly round about route for a few years; it really won't count against her.

Good Luck!

BTW, I didn't do medicine in the end. I opted to take out a loan for a house extension instead

if she studied well for the chemistry exam and failed, I would think about whether she would manage the medicine degree. There is so much to be learnt and either you are good at retaining facts and reproducing them when needed or you tick a bit differently.

I would resit chemistry if it were me and I really wanted to do it and then try and work maybe overseas on a voluntary project and get some real practical experience in the medical field, even just observing and helping out where she can and otherwise being a general dogsbody. I would also think about applying overseas if she cannot get a place in the UK atm. She could make a start overseas and then apply to continue in the UK for instance.

It depends how much she really wants to do it. One exam shouldn't throw you off your life plan. There are other careers in the medical field with which she could work abroad and be needed and do a lot of good. It isn't just medical doctors that are needed. Good luck to her