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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

A setting question

50 replies

Snowfire · 14/07/2012 12:28

DD will be starting yr 7 at our local comp in September. She's done well in her sats, a level 5 for all aspects of English as well as science and a good 4 for maths. She has really been looking forward to getting properly stuck into science having done a science G&T workshop at the comp earlier this term and she has always wanted to be a scientist since she was tiny. I thought having gained a level 5 she would be likely to be in the top set for science but having spoken to several people with children already at the school they are put in the same set for science as they are in for maths meaning she is only likely to be in a middle set for maths and science. Is this the usual way of doing things? DD's friend who is a maths wizz got a 5 for maths but 4 for science but by this reckoning she'll be top set for science.
Also, could being in a lower set affect her chance to do the triple award for GCSE?

OP posts:

BeingFluffy · 14/07/2012 12:44

At my younger DD's school they are set on the basis of the banding tests they do on application. Once they are at the school they move groups on the basis of maths and English results only (and science if it is a tiebreak).

I was surprised that when she joined the school two years ago at age 11, there were a lot of kids who had been taught to level 6 and by the end of the first term there were some in her class who were achieving level 7 and even level 8 in maths. This is a comp by the the way.

I wouldn't worry at the moment. I am sure the teachers will soon pick up on her interest in science and unless she is in a very low set for maths I don't think it will affect her chance to do triple science later on.

BackforGood · 14/07/2012 13:06

I agree with BeingFluffy. Secondary schools are (quite rightly) very cynical about SATS scores and won't be permanently setting anybody based on what they achieve in Yr6. Quite a lot of schools don't set in the first term or even year, and others do their own testing to get their own opinions.

In a good school, sets are fluid anyway. Children don't tend to learn/ progress in a straight line, we all have spurts and periods of consolidation, and particularly in something like Science, where it tends to be modular, you find that pupils might really "get" Science one term but then not 'click' so well the next term when they have moved to a different aspect.
I would wait and see, then you can discuss any concernes at the Yr7 parents evening.

shineypenny · 14/07/2012 13:09

Here they are set on a combination of Science and Maths ability, but based on CAT tests that they do in the first week of secondary, not SATS tests done in primary.

shineypenny · 14/07/2012 13:11

Anyone who achieves level 6b or above at end of Year 9 (based on teacher assessment) can do triple science here.

Original poster

Snowfire · 14/07/2012 15:49

Thanks for that everyone, I remember the yr7s were doing tests when I went for a look around so I guess these were the CAT tests. I'll talk to her tutor once she has started to see what the situation is. I'm sure they wouldn't deliberately hold her back and I'm positive she'll have no problem getting a 6b by yr 9, I don't think she's far off it now tbh
Hopefully her maths will improve as it starts to get more involved, I haven't worried about it much until now as they've always said she was doing ok.

OP posts:

bruffin · 15/07/2012 00:47

Dcs school set from day 1 in maths, science and English , humanities based on SATs and Cats done in July before they start.

ibizagirl · 15/07/2012 08:31

Dd gained 5A in sats for years 4, 5 and 6 so was put straight into set 1 for all subjects except pe and dance. They took cat tests in the early part of year 7 and a lot of the children in dd's class were put into set 2 or 3 and obviously some got put into set 1. She is coming up to the end of year 8 and these children haven't moved since doing those tests in year 7. Dd's friends didn't get level 5 for their sats but got a 4. One is in set 1 for most things but not maths and another one is in set 3 for everything. I know they have a lot of teacher assessments at dd's school but not sure if they move them about at all. I think your dd would be able to get her 6 before year 9. At dd's school they are up to 6 or 7 in year 7 and now she is on 7a or even given an 8. If she enjoys it so much (like dd) she will do well. Best wishes.

seeker · 15/07/2012 08:42

It's important to remember that ibizagirl's dd's school is very exceptional. And so is her dd.. It is very unusual in a comprehensive, (or even in a selective school) to get 7s in year 7! So don't panic!

ibizagirl · 15/07/2012 08:53

Hi Seeker. What do you mean by very exceptional? Dd's school is just a "normal" school although rated outstanding because their results are the best ever. Dd very bright, yes, but she has never been called outstanding so i will tell her. She will like that, thank you! She wasn't the only one to get level 7 in year 7. There is a boy she is quite competetive with. Dd told me he got a 7 for German but she said his English is terrible - he can't spell and his writing is messy. And a few got 7 for maths in year 7 too. And I agree with you seeker by saying don't panic.

TheFallenMadonna · 15/07/2012 08:57

It depends entirely on how the timetable works. If Science and Maths are timetables together, then the sets need to be the same in both subjects. However, if this is the case, then the Science teachers will know that for them, they are teaching a mixed ability class, and there will be no disadvantage to able scientists in a lower set.

seeker · 15/07/2012 09:20

It is very unusual to have level 7 historians in year 7. And level 7 linguists. And you know perfectly well that your dd is exceptional, ibizagirl - even the briefest glance at the national curriculum statistics will show you that!

eatyourveg · 15/07/2012 09:37

When we were looking at secondary schools, there were some where your maths set determined your science set and your english set determined your MFL and humanities. It seemed unfair to me and so we dismissed those schools. Have you asked about the fluidity of sets? They may be able to move her science group at half term if she is not being stretched. Only if the timetable can handle the whole year group doing a subject at the same time will you be able to set each subject separately.

BeingFluffy · 15/07/2012 11:38

In support of what Ibizagirl said, my DD's school which is a comp and no where near the top of the league tables also had quite a few kids at level 8 in maths in year 7 and level seven in English. By year 8 most of her group were level 7 or 8 in maths and most were level 7 in English with a couple of level 8s. I am quite suspicious of the assessing methods though.

In her school ALL sets are determined by the grade in English and maths - so if you are brilliant at maths but not good at English you will be in a middle set.

seeker · 15/07/2012 12:27

And how do they select the children who go to your child's "comp", BeingFluffy?

BackforGood · 15/07/2012 13:05

I'm with Seeker on this - those schools where it is common to get Ls7 and 8 in Year 7, are not typical in any way, shape or size. They are really not anywhere near the 'norm in a bell curve' for anyone who is now getting anxious about their child.

TheFallenMadonna · 15/07/2012 13:20

Quite. It is in fact not the norm to get a level 8 in year 9.

BeingFluffy · 15/07/2012 14:51

Seeker - It is comprehensive intake by banded test, 25% above average, 50% average and 25% below; quite a large intake 240 per year.

seeker · 15/07/2012 14:59

Ah. So not a comprehensive at all. And if it's anything like the other schools that operate this system there will be some--ah, manupulation of the banding.

BeingFluffy · 15/07/2012 15:03

School has 77% getting 5 GCSEs including English and maths and about 25% on free school meals. School is above average, but not in the top flight for results by any means.

In my perception - my other DD is at a superselective- the kids at DD2s comp who are able, are pushed and pushed.

BeingFluffy · 15/07/2012 15:07

Seeker - many schools but not all in central London have banded intake. The bands are based on the percentages of the children sitting the test and are administered by an outside company; not sure what you mean by manipulation in this case.

BackforGood · 15/07/2012 15:44

I'm confused - so you mean everyone at the school has opted to sit a test to see if they can get in ?

BeingFluffy · 15/07/2012 15:46

Yes. Everyone who applies to the school sits a test. They are then banded and the school admits a certain number into each band (priority to looked after, sibling and then on distance but within the band).

bruffin · 15/07/2012 15:49

My nieces are from south London and sat banding tests in primary. I thought it was schools like prendergast and haberdashers couldn't cream the best off the top. They limited to how many in A band they can take.

seeker · 15/07/2012 15:55

Sitting an entrance test means that the school is by definition not comprehensive.

bruffin · 15/07/2012 16:00

It's not an entrance exam. You sit the banding whatever school you go to in lewisham

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