Rights as parents if child down graded in math for GSCE level

[Mumsi1]

I was wondering if anybody out there could tell me my rights as a parent, when my child has just been downgraded by the school and now cannot take higher math GSCE papers but only foundation paper. I personally think that every child has the right to be educated and being given the chance to do higher math. Is streaming not just a way for the school to look good? I would really like to convince my school to put her in the higher set. How could I do that. So grateful for any response. Really disappointed and angry. Many thanks.

Maybe she isn't good enough?
I have a dd who isn't. Have her grades dropped?

Have a word with the school.

If her grades are not good enough for the higher paper then I don't understand why you are upset?
Unless I am reading this all wrong? are her grades good in maths?

The thing is, I don't think it's about the school looking good, I would say if they GENUINLEY believe that she won't pass the higher paper, isn't it better to do the foundation paper and pass, so she has a better result?

And sorry but if her maths isn't good enough for top set, then you should not try and convince the school otherwise.

If she is not able to keep up with the top set class it will make her feel bad, won't it? She will know her ability in maths does not match up to the others in the class. She will get left behind, frustrated that she doesn't understand it quick enough.

And for what reason? Because you think she should be in top set.

When I did GCSE there were 3 of us in set 2 who were far ahead of the other students, think finishing work 40 minutes before everyone else, so we were moved up to the top set, who were the only ones able to do the higher paper. They were also revising topics like trig that we hadn't even been taught yet, and doing AS level maths in their lunchbreak. I think that all 3 of us got grade C in maths on the higher paper but nothing higher than that - we just struggled because of the gap between what we had been taught in Yr 7 - 10 and what this other set were being taught in yr 11.

You will make your daughter miserable if you try and force her to work above her capabilities. If there is a genuine, temporary, reason why her grades have dipped e.g. family bereavement, then fine go back to the school but if it's just a case that she used to be really good but is struggling to keep up then she's not ready for the higher maths paper.

Most jobs only need a GCSE grade C anyway, and she can get that on the lower paper.

I doubt the school would have moved her down to the foundation paper without good reason - if she sits the higher paper and gets below a D then she will simply have failed. With the foundation level she can get a pass at E down to G - its a lower level qualification, but it still counts.

So the school will have done this because they believe it is the best chance for her to get a qualification in maths. Putting her into a higher level set where she will struggle will not make her any better at maths than she already is, and is more likely to leave her baffled and demoralised.

With the foundation paper she can still get a C as I understand it.

YOUR rights as a parent?

EVERY child has the right to do higher maths? Yeah right... every child has the right to do something they are not capable of, fail it, and thus have to wait a year before they do the foundation paper they wre capable of and get a GCSE. That's such a good idea.....

You don't say what year she is. if it is year 10 then there is plenty of time to move sets. if she is year 11 then you could consider getting her a tutor to cover the bits that don't come up in the foundation paper and then get her to do a few past papers nearer the time when the exam entries are sent in so school can see if they think she is up to the mark.

have you seen her work? try giving her some maths work and see how she does. if she is put in a set she is not ready for, her confidence will hit rock bottom and thats a recipe for disaster. better to be top of the 2nd set than bottom of the 1st in my book. As FireOverBabylon says a C is all you need for most jobs.

DS1 is going foundation maths. Which is a shame as he is capable of more but itsn't making the effort (as per usual). He's in Yr 10. He'll get his C and then if he chooses can do the higher level next year. Is that not an option?

In the end what matters is that she does as well as she can. if getting maths done and dusted will help her concentrate on her other subjects it can only be a good thing IMO.

OP is getting a lot of flak for a very reasonable question I think. It is not great to find out your DC will be limited to a maximum grade C in a subject as fundamental as maths.

I think the majority of DC could get a higher grade with enough work and support and presumably OP is also planning to step up support for her DD to giver her a good chance. But the immediate problem is making sure she is entered for an exam which makes a higher result possible.

Many parents use the mumsnet education boards for support and information to help challenge their DC's schools when they think it could help and this is really an important one.

OP's DD will be quoting that grade C maths in application forms a long time after they've left the school behind, and if there is ever a time to question the school's decision of the teacher it is now.

"give" not "giver"

"the school's decision" not "the school's decision of the teacher"

As you were.

whilst I take your point, wildkat, about what it must feel like as a parent in this situation I do take issue with the idea that the school have not tried everything they can to get students higher than a grade C.

The school will not be doing this unless they were genuinely concerned that the child stands a good chance of failing. They also have a care of duty to the rest of the set who cannot risk being held back by someone who , in reality, belongs in a different set.

I was moved down a set in maths (at my request). It was so much better to be one of the best in the class than always struggling to keep up/understand.

As an aside I was put in for the lower paper, where the highest mark should have been a c, but I got a b (also happened in chemistry and physics) but this was back in 1989) and I suspect things might have changed since then!

don't mean to sound harsh!

I would add though, that your dd must have had some warning of this through the year... poor test results and the like. this won't have come out of the blue or suddenly.

Every child has the right to be given the chance to do the best that they can...that's not the same as every child having the right to sit higher papers. Its counter prooductive if they sruggle too mush with it all.

that's productive, struggle and much

(I actually sound drunk!!)

You can get a B grade on the foundation paper can't you? Much better to do foundation than drop off the bottom of higher. I doubt they'd advise her to do foundation for any reason other than they're worried she might not get a D on the higher paper and might therefore fail altogether.

But migrating coconuts, surely even a fantastic teacher doing everything they can, would agree that lots of additional help and support from home could make a big difference?

I think I just hate the idea that children are not able to get a shot at a higher grade - it will sometimes be that the teacher assessment is wrong, or at least that although the assessment is evidence-based, the DC pull their finger out at a late stage and exceed expectations.

Trying to remember back (20 years!) when I was doing GCSE, I think the higher paper was a new thing then and it was controversial to have children's opportunities limited by the upper grade limit.

But migrating coconuts, surely even a fantastic teacher doing everything they can, would agree that lots of additional help and support from home could make a big difference?

absolutely, of course!!!

But...what if its clear that there is a real risk that the student could fail outright and that they are totally out of their depth in the higher tier.

If all it took was hard work to get an A grade then everyone would get A grades. They don't, mainly because it also takes ability too.

My understanding is that the maximum grade for the foundation paper is a C.
I was disappointed to hear that was what my DS was being entered for, as at the time he was talking about science A levels.

I met the head and head of department about it but the HOD was adamant that he wouldn't change him. the intransigent old dinosaur

You're getting a bit of a hard time here, perhaps due to the wording if your OP. I can empathise with your frustration.

Try asking for a meeting with the HOD, at least you'll be able to understand their rationale.

Best thing is to email school & arrange a time to discuss it with the Maths teacher, &/or Head of Maths.

I teach English, & I also mark GCSE Eng Lit scripts for AQA, & every year I mark the papers of students who should never have been entered for Higher. They end up with nothing for two years' work (unless of course their Controlled assessments are stunning, which is highly unlikely in a candidate who has no idea what to write about their exam texts...).

Had they been entered for Foundation Tier, they'd probably have come out with a D or E - not great, but better than an Unclassified at Higher Tier.

When I'm approached by a parent wanting their child moved from F to H entry, there are three possible scenarios:

1. Totally no - your child simply doesn't have the ability to gain a grade B or above, so they would gain nothing & risk not grading at all - we'd be doing them a massive disservice
2. Maybe - if he/she really pulls their finger out, because current work is nowhere near good enough - tier entries can be changed at anytime up until the day of the exam
3. Yes, why not - but we reserve the right to change it back to F tier nearer the time if it becomes apparent that that would be in the student's best interest.

OP, you really need to know the basis for the department's decision before deciding how to proceed. What sort of levels has your dd got at year 9? What year is she in now?

ravenAK...totally agree with your post. You've put it better than I did!

My DH is a head of Maths and has this every year. This may sound silly but the only children who get to do higher are those who have any chance whatsoever of a B grade or higher because it's actually easier in a way to get a C on a foundation paper. Not sure of the ins and outs but it's something to do with the children finding the paper more accessible and not being faced with pages and pages of stuff they can't do - they can have a go at everything on the foundation paper but often give up too early on the higher.

However...there have been parents who have refused to believe him in the past. What he's done is transferred the child to the higher group and let them sit a foundation gcse in the January sitting so that they can get a "safe" C and then if all goes wrong in the higher paper in the June sitting, they've got the C they need. There has not been one child in the last 13 years (I.e. his whole career) who has proved him wrong, but at least they had the chance to try.

His school has consistently got over 80% of children to get a C or above at GCSE, about 20% above national average and top in the county for a state school. He does make a lot of set changes throughout each child's time at high school but it just proves that he knows how they're progressing and is doing the best for them. I suspect the school in the OP is the same.

We do the same, spg1983 (& also get 80%+ A* - C in Eng & Maths, so it seems to be working...)

It's worth bearing in mind too, that taking GCSEs at F tier doesn't mean you're then banned from the exam hall for life. If OP's dd subsequently wants or needs a higher grade, there'd be nothing to stop her re-entering at H tier when at sixth form college or at any point in the future.

Thank you wildcat and raven AK. Was not quite sure if this is a support line or a flogging line. Let me tell you my dd was in Y9 3a and it was always border-line if she would sit the higher or foundation. However, she really wants to be challenged and she wants to be given a chance. We had already given her some additional tution which helped her a lot but it is a bit of a physological thing with her. She thinks she can't do and fails before she starts. She had in one paper over 70% but she failed on the "calculator" paper because she actually was so nervous that she did not read the questions properly. So moving her in a lower set to in her words "the loosers of the school" is not helping her to get better in math. I am sure you are all aware that it is not easy in a big "comprehensive". I spoken to the the department's head today turned out that so many kids from the set above are going to be moved down, in order to make space in 3a they had to move kids to 3b. So is that fair? Maybe there should be 2 3as? I still believe so that we should all have the oppertunity to learn "higher" math if it turns out to be a struggle than move her down. Am I being unreasonable?

Sadly, a B grade is of no consequence to the school as they are judged on the number of A-C grades they obtain.

spg1983 thank you also for your input - this sounds really good too. I will need to discuss this with our school, which your are right is very high in league tables. Was not even aware that you could do this. So will check with my school. Many thankswww.mumsnet.com/emo/te/1.gif