What happens to children during secondary school who got level 4 at KS2?

[Peaksandtroughs]

I know a lot of people on MN have children who got all level 5s at KS2, and my son got mostly level 5s. I now have a younger child who is entering secondary school with 4a reading, 4b writing, 4A Maths and 5 Science. The school sets in 3 subjects and streams in the rest based on SATs results.

From what I've read, it seems that schools' value added scores are based on the progress children make between KS2 and end of KS4. So a child who goes in with a 5 should achieve at least a B, and a child who goes in with a 4 should achieve at least a C. Clearly this is going to have an impact on teaching, because schools will have to have higher goals for the children who came into school with level 5s.

I am really concerned by this. I don't think there is really any difference between my two children. End national curriculum levels were simply a difference in the teachers they had at primary school and have very little to do with the secondary school curriculum anyway. I am now worried that my younger child is going to have low expectations put upon her in terms of GCSE grades. She wants to become a teacher, which means she will have to go to university, and competition for places is getting more intense. I feel she is having doors closed to her based on a test at 11.

Does anyone have a child who went in with level 4s and was still expected or encouraged to get high grades? And if a school does have low expectations for a child, is it possible to fill in gaps at home to help them get decent grades at GCSE?

Hullo!

I am a secondary school teacher and I can cheerfully say that we ignore it all. Most schools that I've come across have their own form of assessment that they use to decide on students' sets (in my school they do an NFER and we use this for the basic design of sets. On top of this, however, we also look at teacher assessment and opinion. Our sets are quite fluid and children do move up and down based on merit).

There is a column on my register for KS2 results, which I occasionally glance at vaguely but it is fairly irrelevant to us, really because, as you say, they are often coached to within an inch of their lives.

In my own school I am often (this is an anecdote, basically) fascinated by the wild differences between the end of KS4 predictions and the reality. They are a generally good guide, but in, say, a class of thirty kids, you could expect to have ten kids get something very different i.e. kids predicted a C who can't write their own name and kids predicted a D who get an A*.

Your school may use it as an initial guide, but it is unlikely to remain that way as soon as they have their own data.

At my DCs school they trust the SATs so much that they retest every child in the first two weeks and use those figures from then on !!!!

And frankly with one in year 7 and one in year 9 - puberty has a lot more to do with later results than KS2

I think that sometimes the presence of MN is a nightmare

The majority of children enter high school with level 4s (that is the expected average) from their SATs. it is actually a lot more preferable for secondary schools to have lots of level 4 entries as it makes our value added look brilliant when we get high GCSE grades from them!

Initially staff will use KS2 data for differentiation etc, but within a couple of week, once your DD and her peers have settled in there will be tests and initial teacher assessments/opinions that will place her in any sets. Very, very quickly you will find that KS2 results are of no value to her future; her hard work will determine that

Cricketballs, your school sounds very sensible to me. DS had a huge difference between his writing and Maths results at KS2. Now he is in year 9 that has completely evened out, but he is at a different school to the one DD will be going to. Unfortunately, DD is going to a school where they are set in English, Maths and Science from day 1, based on KS2 results. I think I may speak to the transition leader, who seems lovely, about it.

Hearing from a teacher like you does give me some confidence that there will be movements between sets, but I will no doubt be anxious until DD actually gets there, because it is stepping into the unknown!

And thanks Tortu and Talkinpeace for replying. I appreciate it as it is reassuring.

I will have the same, I think, P+T (though DS hasn't got his report with the levels in yet...) DD all level 5's now in Y8, DS going into Y6

It will be really interesting to see whether DS makes the amount of progress DD has. However, I think personality comes into it quite a bit - DD has been a diligent, highly motivated, independent learner so far, but I'm not convinced that DS will be quite the same. I hope I am wrong

Very reassuring for me too. I like Tortu's post very much. My friend's son did very badly in his CATs and came out as a well below average student who would be getting Ds in his GCSEs. He has just got an A* for maths! Fabulous! Our secondary only sets in English and Maths in Yr7 and then Science as well in Yr8.

DS got a 4c for writing and a 5b for reading which was an overall 4a for english. 5s for science and maths. He went on to get level 7s at the end of KS3 and has been targeted As for gcse. Results day is 23/8 so we will see.

That was level 7s for english

Great Bruffin! These stories are very encouraging. Good luck on results day! My Yr 7 son's predicted science level for the end of KS3 is a 5a and he's already on a 6b at the end of Yr7.

Last night I learnt that DS new school only sets in maths for y7.
For maths+English in y8. DS is going in without SATs scores so will be interesting to see what they do with him.

Voles
Secondaries test their year 7's on a half termly basis and their year 8's termly.
In DDs year the sets were regularly shuffled as people matured and developed at different rates.
DSs year has had less setting but the Yr 8 sets will be based on a year of proper data.

My SS got level 3's in maths and science at KS2. Set for all A's and B's in the three science GCSE's he's doing and top set in Maths. Glad we worried so much....

L4 is ridiculously wide, senior schools make their own assessments.