Would you worry if 44% of entrants to a (secondary) school couldn't read?

[Takver]

To be more exact, 44% 'have a reading age of lower than 9.5 years' - from the Estyn report. Would this worry you if you were choosing a school?

Its not in a particularly deprived area, nor does it have many (I suspect a trivial no.) of children for whom English is a 2nd language.

Statistically, if the children on entry to secondary school range in age between 10 years and one day and 11 years to the day, the reading ages on the normal distribution will dictate that around a third will have a reading age of 9.5 or below

this is skewed by local demographics but not much
and 44% does imply some weaknesses at the primary schools

the fact that you mention Estyn rather than Ofsted is the clue - standards at Welsh schools - without the spotlight of SATs and league tables - have not progressed as well as those at English schools.

The main thing will be to ask what programmes the Secondary has in place to keep the more able stretched while bringing the weaker ones up to a more appropriate level.

Talk - they are a year older than that surely? 11 years, one day to 12?
OP - this could indicate, as Talk says, weaknesses at primary school level so she is correct in saying that you would want to know how the secondary addresses this and what sort of progress the children make during their time there. I am not sure what data is published on Welsh schools, but comparing their value added score to similar local schools would give you some idea of how effective the school is in improving outcomes for its intake.

Yes-so much so that I would choose a different school.

Yes, especially as many of the Y2 in our area have a RA on test scores of over 9 years. No reading ability, severely impaired access to the curriculum and general survival in a literate world.
What is happening in the local primaries for this to be such a problem?

Sorry, yes - DS is in year 7 and turns 12 JUST before year 8
so he started year 7 JUST before he turned 11 and the oldest kids were nearly 12
so that would take the expected %age at 9.5 years down to around 20-25% - THERE IS A PROBLEM

exotic
OP's problem is that this is a problem in ALL Welsh Primaries - the only ones that have kept standards high are the Welsh Language ones and a couple around Aber because of the kids of Faculty.

Yes, I would be very concerned.

To be fair to the primaries, there are complicating factors. Firstly, the school has a good reputation for helping dyslexic pupils, which of course means they'll get more of them.

And secondly, the other school that is an option for most is Welsh medium secondary, and I think anyone whose dc are struggling reading will probably choose English medium simply as you really do have to be literate in English at the least.

exoticfruits - why would it lead you to choose a different school?

I think you're right, TalkinPeace, the key question is how they support the whole range of pupils.

We could choose the other secondary, but would prefer not as in this school dd can take subjects in both languages (rather than all Welsh medium), which would suit her better.

'exoticfruits - why would it lead you to choose a different school?'

Is that a serious question? I would be concerned about the access to the rest of the curriculum such as history and geography and ICT use. I would want to see how they dealt with the able readers to ensure that they were challenged at their own level and had equal amounts of teacher time and interaction to keep them motivated.
I have happily taught in schools I didn't want my children to be members of. If the overall level of literacy is so low in a secondary, what are their KS3 and GCSE results like? (or welsh equivalent)

That sounds atrociously bad.

Fallen
The tricky thing with league tables is working out where YOUR child will fit in.
Takver has a situation where there is a high proportion of dyslexia - because people have moved to a centre of excellence.
Which is fine so long as the results achieved from the bright non dyslexics are good ....

at my DCs school, 68% get 5 GCSE & Maths and English.
BUT the top 60 kids in each year get strings of As and A* because the learning is well differentiated
the bottom 60 get the tractor driving, car mechanic and hair dressing qualifications that suit them (I'm not being rude - lots of farms round here)

it would be well worth going in and meeting with a member of the SMT and asking direct questions.

For the very reasons that FallenCaryatid mentions.
I am all for comprehensive education but I expect the bulk to be average i.e. a reading age that matches chronological age a minority that will have SN and be below average and a good top end where they will be intending to go to top universities. I don't think that my DCs will get the right stimulation, attention or be able to find like minded friends if almost half can't read sufficiently well to access the curriculum.

Same at the secondary my two went to, Talking.
They were very good with children with an SN, and DS has AS.
DD left with 11 GCSEs, 10 A* DS with fewer, but more able to live and cope with the world of 6th form and life in general. Differentiation is the key.

Yes, I'd be worried, just as I would be worried about the apparently numerous London schools where English is no longer the first language of the majority. What are parents meant to do? (And all of that is before we even consider what percentage of teachers can't read, write or do arithmetic!)

DS2 is dyslexic and not academic. He left school at 16, but he did manage a C for English language and English literature at GCSE- and higher for other subjects. Had it been normal to have low expectations I doubt he would have got the extra help.

I would also be worried that other parents who cared about education would be taking their DCs away-they generally vote with their feet.

Working in a school with a high proportion of EAL is less of an issue if there is a diversity of language as English becomes the lingua franca. Likewise the teaching of phonics and grammar is often more accurate, many of the best spellers I have taught have been EAL pupils.

DH was at a school with 2% English first language and 36 mother tongues
the standard of English was EXCELLENT by year 6 - as it was the ONLY way they could all play together.
And some of those kids were SCARILY bright.

EAL definitely isn't an issue - we're in rural Wales.

Those who say they'd choose another school - would you still make that choice if it meant your dc working in their second language?

Does anyone know where I'd look for value added scores?

Voting with the feet - somewhat of an issue (basically middle class educated parents from dd's primary do tend to choose the welsh med. school as we're relatively close) but less than you'd think because of distances & the fact that there isn't much other choice if you went to an english medium primary.

Takver
I have friends who live between Mach and Aber.
Most people in England have no concept of what choosing another school involves in really rural areas.

My best suggestion is to go and speak to the secondary , with a crib sheet of questions, and get as many answers as you can.

Its very true, TalkinPeace - I always laugh slightly ruefully when people talk about 'just choose a different school'. At least at secondary there is some definite difference between our two options, at primary if we hadn't wanted our village school the next nearest (about 7 miles) shares the same head-teacher :)

On the other hand, we are better off than friends whose local school has just been put into special measures (although other friends have dc there and are actually reasonably happy with it). And unlike those in cities we do have the good luck that whichever of the two options we choose we can be pretty certain that dd will get a place.

I guess next move is definitely to go & have a chat with them. There'll be an open evening in the autumn, perhaps I'll see how that goes & ask if we can visit separately if necessary.

Those of you who are teachers - is that a real no-no? DD has problems with writing (though not reading!) & has had sessions with the ed psych & is meant to be working as much as possible on the computer (plus the whole pencil grips/paper on a slope/etc deal) so I'd also like to ask about that at the open evening.

Well, if you have no choice, this is the only school she can go to that will teach her in English, then there are few options.
I'd go, ask and research and find out as much as I could, and work out what I could do at home to ensure she was as supported as possible by me.

Well, I guess the alternative is that she goes to the Welsh medium school - which has excellent exam results and a very academic intake (though there are other things I dislike about it as well as the language issue).

In a way if we had no alternative that would probably be easier, as you say we could support her out of school as necessary.

Its really helpful to hear people's thoughts on here - there's always endless threads about people choosing primaries, but not so many at secondary level outside of the super selective/choosing between specific private school type threads.

How good is her Welsh?