Single-sex boarding schools

[Bonsoir]

Do you think that single-sex boarding schools perpetuate entrenched sexism?

I went to an all girls school boarding until 13 then the local co ed comp.

I dont recall much sexism or sterotyping much at my girls school but was very aware when I joined my co ed comp that I was not as into my looks as my new friends were. Within 2 months of joining I had gone from being rather tom boyish and into riding, hockey and athletics to shopping in Tammy Girl, make up, perms and hairspray. But then maybe that was just an teen age issue.

My DD is moving from her co ed prep BS to an all girls BS in September. We didnt specifically choose all girls above co ed - we liked the school and felt it offered DD alot of the things she is into and it felt right for her. We looked at lots of schools and the all girls/Co ed thing was not really ever much of a consideration on our list.

Sundae as you said "I would be tempted by Eton or Winchester because of the extraordinary learning experiences," it is just that and this is the reason that we choose it. There is no equivalent coed school my DS has blossomed in a way he never did in his coed prep. I cant honestly say if this has anything to do with it being boys only although I susoect it does but it certainly works for him. Most importantly for us he feels free to be the person he wants to be.

I have no doubt that the school will be hugely influential in his life but there is one woman who will influence his views on women more; his mum. I have shown that both men and women are equally capable and deserve equal respect.

"Most importantly for us he feels free to be the person he wants to be."

I entirely empathise with the motives behind that feeling. But is it really right or useful to encourage boys to be the person they want to be without having to take any consideration of girls?

Quite a bit of discussion re boarding schools is a bit out of date. The modern world cannot be kept out of schools in the way it once might have been. This can cause significant pastoral problems when staff are in loco parentis, but I don't believe there is the isolation from the opposite sex or the world that is suggested. For a start, few schools now have sixth formers who remain cloistered at weekends.

When they attended a highly competitive co-ed day school, my daughters used to get up 20 mins early to put make up on. When we went overseas they went to a girls' boarding school. Now they don't apply makeup for school. Life is much easier when you don't have panda eyes by lunchtime and after PE.

Today's article, linked below by Rachel Johnson, about end of term at Marlborough suggests time spent on looks is not confined to single sex girls' schools. I would say there is far less fuss at my daughters' equivalent event - perhaps because there are fewer boys?

www.telegraph.co.uk/family/9373117/Girls-today-are-so-glamorous-but-theres-a-price-to-be-paid.html

I have taught extensively in co-ed schools and in two boys' schools, one an outstanding comp (ex grammar) and one which was socially very selective but with a huge ability range. (day school) I didn't find the boys sexist except where they were simply being adolescent and learning how to behave. I generally found them interested to learn and keen to discuss and ask questions about relationships and feamle perspectives, many of which they would not have asked in front of girls. There is less inclination to show off if no girls are around and discussions were frank.

I don't have strong feelings either way - I think it is the quality of the school that is important, not the single or mixed sex aspect, though I understand anyone who feels the set up is unnatural and would not want single sex education.

However, the idea that there is more anorexia etc in girls' schools is not especially true in my experience, once you have taken into account the competitive nature of families who send their children to high-achieving schools. There is also a certain amount of affluent neglect in some families with children who board and other family issues (quarrelling parents etc) - money changes aspects of children's problems, but problems there are.

I would say from my observations that it is family issues and pressures that most frequently lead to MH problems (anorexia/self-harm etc) and the schools have to deal with the fallout sometimes with parental support but not always. I find the girls themselves generally make fine and stalwart confidantes and supporters of each other.

"Most importantly for us he feels free to be the person he wants to be."
By this I mean free to pursue those things that particularly interest him; one in particular is almost exclusively a "male thing" I fell asleep when visiting a museum devoted to his passion and the other is usually one that more women are interested in. Not being a team sport player all his sporting interests are played equally by men and women and in fact he goes abroad doing one with a equal mix of boys and girls.
I'm sorry to disappoint those who believe boys only full boarding schools are a breeding ground for male chauvinists I do not expect to find him now or in the future to be sexist any more than than I expect to find now him or in the future to be a racist (something I personally feel very strongly about).
anotherteacher is right boarding school have changed considerably in the last 10 - 15 years many peoples experiences are either totally out of date or based on pre conceived ideas which are underpinned with second hand anecdotal crap evidence.

happygardening - I entirely understand that you are happy for your DS that he can indulge all his passions to his heart's content. Most parents are delighted to see their children happily pursuing their own interests. It is also important for him to realise, though, that that museum (or whatever) that bores the pants of you does bore the pants off you and that he will need in adult life to make concessions to female interests (and with good will).

Surely living in a boarding community implies compromise and submitting to the wishes and preferences of others sometimes? Girls and boys and their interests are not so astoundingly different that it will take a great leap of imagination for a boy socialized largely with other boys to accommodate another person's wishes.

We as a family have strong individual opinions and are not afraid to tell each other what we think about others interests so my DS has no doubt about my particular view on his passion obviously finding me fast asleep on a chair in a museum only reinforced this view. But by attending a museum I have absolutely no interest in I believe I am encouraging him to realise that life is about give and take and that he needs to make make concessions and be tolerant not only to female interests but mens interests even as well. Life in general is about respecting others and their individual interests and even trying to show an interest regardless of whether they be male or female and also not being afraid to be different and swim against the tide. Luckily I haven't bee invited to another recent trip to what to my mind looks like an identical museum!!

anotherteacher - I have heard that said about boarding communities many a times (the other cliché being that it makes DCs more independent). I don't think it is any kind of blanket truth though. Living in a community of highly like minded people (which any boarding school is, but a single-sex one far more so) tends to blinker people to differences, I think.

I am not sure I made it a 'blanket truth'. I don't believe in blanket truths. I would never suggest that boarding schools engender independence (nor even that that would be desirable, necessarily) but those of my adult friends who are public school educated (given, they are my friends so I like them) are not sexist and have successful partners whom they have supported to achieve their own (in some cases higher achieving) ambitions. You said earlier you were curious about the values of families who chose single sex boarding. That suggested to me that you might think that there is a blanket truth about them. In my experience, there isn't.

It would be stupid of me to suggest that a boarding school is a microcosm of society, but there is certainly a pretty fair variation within them - admittedly largely in interests and nationality. Having commenced at my fifth expat posting on a 5th continent and met people from all those communities using UK boarding schools, there is variety of a sort.

Anyway, I am not especially an apologist for boarding schools. A decent school is just that and I feel convinced that the greater influence by far derives from the family structure imprinted upon us during childhood.

I very much doubt that there is a single value (or, even more unlikely, a single set of values) that one could attribute to all families who choose single-sex boarding schools. But there are probably several segments of users who share some core values - and then there are probably some outliers, too.

I'm curious about the make-up of the user groups!

Bonsoir you seem very critical of boarding yet your comments imply little or no direct experience! Obviously all children at boarding schools are different and although may share some values will also have many differences. Boarding does in my now extensive experience engender tolerance of difference because when you live in a tight knit community you discover so much more about them than you ever would at any day school. My DS has made friends with boys who in a day school he might not have done because he has had an opportunity to see and understand boys beyond his first impressions which may or may not always be a favourable one.
Parents to are mixed although in my experience are generally pretty ambitious for their children although this may just be a reflection of the
type of schools we choose and I doubt there are many raging feminists.

No, I am not critical of boarding! In fact, we have recently been viewing boarding schools for one/some of our DCs. But I want to understand more about different families/DCs/choices/outcomes.

It's impossible generalise. Every boarding school is different as I suspect you've discovered all will make grand claims. IME experience and I believe are important factors to take into consideration are that some are more liberal than others and some unbelievably old fashioned standards of pastoral care also vary. I wouldn't worry about promoting sexism or not this would be low down on my list of must haves if I was choosing again.

Of course separating boys from girls is going to increase not decrease ideas of difference. This is where the problem lies.

Hg, I'm sure your DC is totally right on. However, for less enlightened boys/girls/families single sex reinforces stereotypes.

Seven years of boarding down the road and I don't think it's a true generalisation to say that boarding makes children more independent as they go about their daily lives; frankly it is inevitable. Boarding children do not experience the same level of adult supervision as a child in an average nuclear family receives and how ever well staffed will have been expected to shift for himself in a way that those not at a boarding school won't have been. I personally have no problem with this and also believe that my DS's effortless adaptability an essential requirment of 21st living has arisen because of boarding but perhaps these tendencies were already there.

I'm not sure he's totally "right on" I just dont think he's any more sexist than any other child walking down the road. In fact I find it hard to believe that in this day and age there are many sexist children out there. Boarding schools obviously have huge influence on a child's personality but perhaps it's easy to over estimate the influence. I suspect they fan existing views and belief rather than con

I'm not sure he's totally "right on" I just dont think he's any more sexist than any other child walking down the road. In fact I find it hard to believe that in this day and age there are many sexist children out there. Boarding schools obviously have huge influence on a child's personality but perhaps it's easy to over estimate the influence. I suspect they fan existing views and beliefs rather than completely changing them. They are only at school about 32 weeks of the year as I've said above I actually believe parents in particular mothers have the biggest influence over a child's values. IME experience ghastly children whether they be boarding or not generally have ghastly parents.

"Of course separating boys from girls is going to increase not decrease ideas of difference. This is where the problem lies."

This is what I tend to think. I went round a co-ed boarding school very recently and the difference in the houses (and the DCs only slept in their houses) was colossal. It was a real eye-opener and helped understand why it's good not to segregate boys from girls all the time!

Bonsoir just intrigued what were the differences you found between the girls and boys boarding houses? I have had a DD at a single sex school and a DS at a coed and their houses were remarkably similar. Interestingly you mention that at this school they only sleep in their houses what do they do for the rest of the time? At both my DC's schools they were back at house at lunchtime and of course after school. One of them was also allowed back in spare lessons to study in their rooms. So they actually spent much of their time in their Houses.

When we chose our schools we were not looking for a particular type of school for our DCs. Infact for our DD our final 2 consisted of a girls school and a coed. What we were looking for was a school to suit her. She left a few years ago and we are still happy that we made the correct choice for her. She doesn't appear to hold sexist views. She just seems to believe if you work hard you have a chance to succeed whether you are male or female.

I agree with a previous poster that noted that even at single sex schools there is lots of mixing with other schools so they are not segregated all the time!

HG that's very true about ghastly parents and their DCs. They exist at boarding and day schools.

I work in a coed boarding school there are negatives to coed boarding as well as positives!! But ultimately our decision was not based on coed versus single sex but because for us my DS's school is unique and offers what he and we were looking for; there is no coed boarding school out there that even comes close. If it we had been able to find an identical coed ed then he would have had the choice and I suspect chosen the coed option but as we all know in life you cant have everything.
Actually if he had not been offered places at the two boys schools he choose we would have gone coed because he would have gone to the local comp because frankly I wouldn't waste my money on any of the others!

Oh the boys' house we visited was all pool tables, games consoles, technology and sports kit everywhere. The girls' house was all squashy sofas in pretty sitting rooms and bedrooms overflowing with cosmetics and clothes. Wildly different atmosphere!

No eating in the houses - there were central dining rooms.

happygardening - you think there are only two boarding schools in the country that are better VFM than state school?

Bonsoir the dorms sound very similar to the differences between a normal teenage boy and a teenage girls bedroom. I am glad you didn't see my DD's dorm as that would have been overflowing with sports kit......
I presume what you are highlighting is that the schools are emphasising stereotypes and that this can affect the pupils? Boys do this and girls do that ? At my DD's girls school there was none of that they were allowed to do what they were interested in.

Of course girls and boys boarding houses are different. If you talk to matrons who've worked in both they will tell you that they are very different places but difference doesn't mean better. I too am surprised by your comment "the DCs only slept in their houses" IME experience at senior level even if you eat in a main dinning room most children spend a considerable time in their houses in most boarding schools there are three half days a week and prep is usually done in house particularly for younger children. In fact I would be concerned if little time is spent in house as this is a child's "home" when at boarding school his base where he/she can come and chill out the HM is keeping an eye on what you're DC is up too not possible if they are rarely in the house and also your DC will not get lost in the crowd. Some schools are of course exceedingly houseccentric which I personally like others feel that in this situation the HM becomes so important that if he leaves then the dynamics of the house can change too significantly for better or worse.