Which would you choose?

[AChickenCalledKorma]

Sorry, but it's another "which school shall I choose?" dilemma. Just looking for some gut reactions from people that are already at secondary stage.

From your experience, which would you go for:

School A: Catholic state secondary, 800 pupils, has a history of poor attainment but has brought in a "super-head" who has generated an upward spiral of results over the last two or three years. Tight discipline, smart uniform, lots of fresh paint. Small sixth form, possibly a more limited range of subjects. Track record on getting children into top-flight universities is a bit unknown. AND although I loved the buildings and atmosphere at open day, the Head came across as arrogant and a bit of a control freak!

School B: State comp with 1500 pupils, no religious allegiances. Has a history of being a sought after school but reputation has slid over the last few years for reasons that no-one seems able to articulate. Buildings and students generally a bit scruffier than the other school, but not terrifyingly so. Parents of teenagers who are there at the moment seem happy. I know some 20-somethings who have been there and done very well at good universities. And the Head came across as having a very clear idea of her vision for the school, which includes a big focus developing children's leadership skills and character alongside academic achievement.

People worry about the second school because it is located in a rough part of town, but in reality the students are drawn from a similar catchment for both.

In terms of GCSE results, both are now similar. Ofsted reports are similar. Both within easy walking distance.

University performance is relevant because DH and I both went to Cambridge and there is every sign that DD1 is bright enough to head somewhere in that sort of league, if she is so inclined.

Well, are you a Catholic? If not, will you find it annoying when they have to go to masses and things?

I am a Methodist. So I will be happy with the God stuff, but unhappy that the Catholic church will exclude her from receiving bread and wine. But the other school is fairly militantly secular, so we can't win either way on that front!

Ok, just thought it might be something to consider! Think about things like, if the Pope pops over again (no idea how often he does!) and is in the vicinity, she may well have to go and cheer and listen to him - our local RC school sat on concrete at the racecourse all day to do so last time! Also, are they over subscribed? because if they are, you may not get a place without a baptismal cert. anyway.

I think what you say about the two heads is quite important - I guess 'new broom' heads are often going to be a bit control -freaky, but if it doesn't gel with you, that's worth taking into account.

I'd want to do more research into why school 2 seems to have got a bit scruffier of late - do you know people who have children in the younger years there? Or who have witnessed this seeming decline - what do they have to say about it?

Good point about asking people with younger children at School B. I probably know more than I think, if I start asking around at school.

I think it's the bit about the Heads that's bothering me. I've always gone along with the notion of "you can tell a lot about the school from the head". But with these two schools, there seems to be a bit of a mis-match.

(And yes, the Catholic one is over-subscribed, but it's not a particularly Catholic area, so they are still letting in "other Christians". We have a good enough chance of getting in to make it worth a go).

Yes, usually next favourite thing for you to be at RC school is 'any other practising Christian', so I'm sure you'd be ok - it's just that the only RC school I know can and does pretty much choose, and you do need the baptismal certificate.

Is your child year 5? Do you know any year 6 parents who've chosen one or the other?

Yes, she's in Year 5. And the Year 6 parents I know are pretty much split 50:50 between the two!

Interesting dilemma. "Super-Heads" tend not to stay in post on a long-term basis so it is possible that this Head could move onto another school within the next year or two.
Our local Catholic High school does allow children (and staff) of other denominations to participate in communion, but this maybe conditional on baptism/confirmation (or equivalent). This may depend on the priest rather than the school though.
I would be concerned about the small sixth form though. However it is often possible to transfer at sixth form level so this may not be a problem.

Crazymum - can you say why the small sixth form would worry you? I am torn between thinking it could be good (small classes, lots of attention) or bad (limited choices, lack of healthy competition with peers).

Small classes and a lot of teacher attention can be a bad thing at sixth form level as at this age they need to be getting more independence and be getting used to a larger environment in preparation for uni.

Limited subject choices and competition which is almost bound to be a problem with a smaller sixth form would be much more of an issue at this age.

If it was me, my deciding factors would be what non-core courses they offer and what those departments are like (e.g. are the only languages on offer French and Spanish and you have a child who shows little interest in either, preferring German).

To be honest it really depends on what you mean by small sixth form / small classes. I would want to make sure that there was a good range of subjects available, that good results were obtained across a wide range of subjects and that the standard of teaching was at least good across the whole school (including sixth form).
At A level pupils are expected to become more independent learners and prepare the skills for university so the class size needs to be large enough to cover situations such as discussions and debates for Arts subjects or small enough for each student to access specialist equipment for laboratory work in Science.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, which have definitely given me a few more things to think about. And hopefully reach a decision!

The thing about class size raising different issues for different subjects is an interesting one. Wouldn't have thought of that ... or of the very valid point that sixth formers may be better off getting used to a larger group, in prep for uni.

On the results tables I saw, the smaller school entered somewhere between 30 and 40 students for A-levels, which must indicate some pretty tiny classes with the range of subjects offered.

Have also now discovered that they only offer one language (french) in year 7-9, with one additional one at GSCE/A level. The other school offers two from yr 7, adds another at GCSE and has a Mandarin Club. In fact, the larger school offers waaaaaaay more in the way of extra-curricular. DD1's eyes lit up when she heard about the climbing club and she's also attracted to School B by the fact it's the only one where she'd be permitted to wear trousers!!!

School A, with a switch to another sixth form or college if things haven't improved by then (although I tend to think that a small sixth form with a good breadth of subjects is about as good as it comes - subject choices aren't restricted, and each pupil is known as an individual (useful for UCAS references!)), and some out of school extra-curriculars? It would seem to encompass the best of both worlds.

The restriction on languages offered in the smaller school would be a big minus for me.

I had exactly the same dilemma when choosing a secondary school; I found it extremely stressful. At the end of the day, it is the child and the parents who have most influence on achievement. Not very helpful, I'm afraid, but it may reassure you that you cannot make a mistake! Go with your instincts.