Grammar school oversubscription appeal advice please

[Goosey74]

Hi all I'm new to all of this.
I am attending an appeal next week as DS didn't get offered a place at our first choice based on PAN of 180 being reached at 12.6 miles and we are 13.6 miles. Our reasons for wanting a place are primarily due to his academic abilities and we have evidence of this. We have been offered our second choice (catchment school), which we are not unhappy with, just unhappy we didn't get first choice. I don't want to come across as criticising our offered school as we did list it, but Ofsted did comment on how the most able children (esp boys) aren't always challenged enough, especially in English. DS is Gifted & Talented in English. Should I mention this along the lines of this is why he needs a place at the school we are appealing for? Any advice would be gratefully received.

I'm confused. Surely if this is a grammar school he would have had to pass the 11+ and if the school has let's say, 100 places, he needs to be in that top 100 in terms of everyone who sat the test.

I don't understand what you mean by appealing on the grounds of his academic ability. Surely that's what the 11 plus determines?

He did pass the 11 plus with flying colours! There were more applicants than places available therefore the LA's admission criteria wass applied. Looked after children and statemented children get first priority he is neither of those. Then sibling links- he is the eldest child so no luck there! Next is distance from school to home. 180 places filled before distance radius reached us. We therefore now have to convince an appeal panel that his need for a place at the school, outweighs the " prejudice" admitting another child above 180 would cause.

I don't get this 'pass' but not get a place though. When I lived in a grammar area (mid Essex) there were four grammar schools, two in Chelmsford and two in Colchester. Let's say collectively they had four hundred places between them, the places were offered to the top 400 people who scored most highly. There was no pass or fail mark as far as I know.

Hilly, all different grammars have different criteria. Look some of them up, if you're interested.

I passed the 11 + in Chelmsford, but didn't get a place as it wasn't one of the higher scores. So it is possible to pass the 11+ and not get in.

(I only found out anout 5 years ago I passed, I always thought I'd failed it as my parents never told me at the time)

But surely you did fail if you didn't get a place! There is no actual mark that is considered a 'pass' as far as I know - it is just like a running race - first past the post.

Goosey, as I understand it, your best hope is in arguing that this school can best provide for your sons particular needs. So, academic excellence may be the only argument you have.

Same where we are. You can pass but not necessarily get a place. In my day places were offered according to how high you scored, which isn't the case now in our area - it is pass or fail and then distance from school that counts.

Hilly, in Kent and bexley, there is a pass mark. If you pass, you can apply for the school you want. But all schools have different criteria. For example, Skinners and The Judd give places to the highest scoring candidates, regardless of siblings, looked after status, and distance from the school. Dartford Girls gives places to girls living a mile from the school, followed by girls living in various parishes, followed by all others. There are sibling places and looked after places, as well. It's quite complicated.

The bromley grammars give places to the candidates with the highest scores, so for them, there is a cut off score, but no pass mark.

My issue here is what to say and more importantly what not to say during the stage 2 hearing, to give us the best chance of the appeal being upheld. In my area the children are not ranked on their 11 plus score (except for one school), they just need to pass. The pass mark may change every year depending on different factors.

Some people may be aware and others not that most private schools have a bursary system where bright or talented children can apply for a subsidided place. This means if you have a child who is talented in music, sport, art or drama or is very academic they may be able to get the school to pay for their education. the household income has to come under a certain amount though. By doing this schools raise their accademic results in the league tables. Some private schools offer 100% for a desirable puipil. At the school my daughter goes to 12 pupils in every year are on a bursary. No one knows who they are unless they want to make it known. If your 11 year old is unable to get a lace at a grammer school why not aply for a bursary to an indepandant school

HillyWallaby - Others are correct. Many grammar schools have a set pass mark in the 11+. They don't necessarily admit those with the highest scores. If the number who achieve the pass mark exceeds the number of places available some of those who passed the 11+ will not get a place. We are likely to see a rise in this next year as the new admissions code says that grammar schools should administer tests and send out the results before the deadline for applications so that parents don't waste a preference applying for a grammar school when their child has failed the 11+.

Goosey74 - You can raise that but you will need to be careful how you phrase it. Instead of saying that the allocated school doesn't always challenge the most able pupils enough you should say that the grammar school will stretch your son academically, ensuring he achieves the best possible outcome. However, on its own it is not a terribly strong argument. You need to look for other features of this grammar school that are missing from the allocated school and that would be of particular benefit to your son. For example, your son is musically talented, does the grammar school have a stronger emphasis on musical activities? Look also at things like after school clubs.

If the comprehensive has been pulled up for not stretching pupils in a subject area, they will be working on this and therefore your son will benefit. Particularly if it is a good school otherwise.

Prh47bridge Thanks for advice, this whole thing is a minefield! Its not that we were set on this school because its a grammar, it was because we feel its the right school for our son, where he will achieve his full academic potential. We have put in our statement about his music abilities as the school claimed music specialism. We have said about his academic abilities and that he is already level 6 in core subjects, reading age is 15 plus years. Head teacher has done letter to evidence and support this and we also included his outstanding year 5 report. He really wants this and was devastated when he learnt he hadn't got a place. He doesnt know about the appeal as I don't want to upset him as it probably won't be upheld. At least we will have done everything we can.

Try looking at the elevenplusforum - it has lots of really useful advice on appeals and quite often you'll find some specific to your region. Good Luck.

We have learnt today that our appeal has been upheld. We are elated! Many thanks to you all for your advice and good luck wishes.

Goosey
Delighted for you and your DS