Target Grades

[LittleFrieda]

I know predicted grades can change, but do target grades change?

Target grades are usually generated using data on how pupils with the same past academic history usually perform and so they don't change. However, you may have both base targets and stretch targets, you may get targets generated by the school or by an outside organisation (eg ALIS targets) and at A Level you may also get AS targets and A2 targets. So it could appear that they change if teachers quote different ones.
Hope that helps.

All pretty much meaningless

babybouncer - thank you. My son's MidYis/ALIS target grades are 10 A* grades. How do they work this out and how accurate is it?

These target grades are computer generated ones. I'm not sure how Midyis/Alis are worked out, but they are average target grades. They will be reasonably accurate for large groups of students on average, which means some will meet them, some will achieve below them and some above, and this is expected. Therefore, don't take them too seriously in applying them to one individual student. Teacher assessed predicted grades will be far more useful as they actually are based on knowledge of how your DS is working.

As a teacher, I have very little idea where the target grades are conjured up from, certainly not from teacher assessment and our knowledge of the students after having taught them for three years . . . I think it often comes from CAT tests taken at 11 and KS2 SATS, then a very clever computer mashes them up and comes up with a completely inappropriate target, particularly in subjects not taught at KS2.

You've caught me on an angry day!

I would love to know this too.

I don't know about ALIS/Midyis, but FFT targets are generated from KS2 results and about 20 other variables including sex, ethnic origin, free school meal status, postcode, EAL and other factors shown to affect attainment (positively or negatively).

They then compare this to the latest national data. The targets for your child will be the average grade achieved by the average child with a similar profile to yours, or depending on the aspirations of your school, a child in the top 25% of achievers. This is why these targets are only accurate when applied to large groups of students so that individual variations are smoothed out.

Ours are based on fine level data from KS2. Some do get changed if a teacher firmly believes child is not capable of their target, but it's rare.

Target grades are merely a stick with which to bash teachers when the kids don't hit them.

I think Midyis might be done from tests undertaken at set times in school but without revision and mashed by someone (at a cost) into a target grade. Or maybe that's something else!

Having a daughter going through GCSEs I reckon most children have at least three grades available to them. One if they coast and turn up on the day. A second with a smidgin of work. A third which is just in their reach if they really get down and work hard, revise well and have a good day in the exam!

Teachers can change target grades for individual students on reports etc. What they can't do is change the computer generated expectation for that student which will be used to calculate the Value Added score for the school.

So (at my school at least) the student could have an FFT target grade of A for Art (random example). The student is academic, but dyspraxic. They got excellent results at KS2 SATs, are rubbish at Art but took it because of problems with option blocks. The teacher could give them a more realistic target grade of a C. However, the school will be judged against the FFT A target.

I teach Science, and the same child might have a higher FFT for Triple Science than Core and Additional, and again for Additional Applied, because, as noblegiraffe says, it's about groups of students.

We as teachers are judged against the individual targets though.

Some people really shouldn't be trusted with data...

I could name a few names with that sentence Fallen

I teach drama and performing arts. I am judged at KS3 against KS2 English levels and since there are no FFT targets for performing arts, my KS4 targets are also taken from English grades. This is ludicrous as a student may be excellent at English but not terribly talented at drama. Mind you, it works the other way too (for me anyway) - excellent VA on kids who aren't all that academic but ooze talent where it comes to acting

Evil Twins, just wondering if you could say what grades, in what year, you would be looking at to put forward a pupil as being G&T in drama?

I have Yr 8 kids on a level 7 at the mo- they are def G&T. In yr 9 there are 3 or 4 at level 8. The thing with drama is that G&T definitely comes down to talent- I have one on the list who is in yr 11 but doesn't actually take it as a subject.

Ah- hit send too soon. So with the yr 11 student, who was on the G&T list last year, there is no grade/level to put him in the list- his involvement in extra-curricular drama marks him out as G&T and being on "the list" means he gets to be involved with extra stuff.

That should say "on the list SINCE last year"

Great, thanks Evil! These grades seem all over the place so it's hard to know what they mean and what other kids are getting. DS is on a 5a in Yr 7 and he told me that you cannot get higher BUT, being a bit of actor, you cannot always believe what he says!!! He does extra curricular as well but I am no judge of whether or not he actually has real talent. He might be good but not g&t good which is fine. Parents' eve coming up soon.

PS. His end of year target was 4b.

We got a chances graph with the MidYis grade predictions, and it was about 90% chance of an A* for most subjects.

Niceweather - I would be unlikely to put a Yr 7 child on a 5a on the G&T list. Lovely that he's exceeded his end of year target though! Bizarre that the school won't move anyone higher- I don't this year, but last year I had yr 7s at 6a at the end of the year. G&T is an odd one though- it's supposed to be the top 10% which can obviously vary from cohort to cohort.

Thanks for getting back to me Evil. I'll cancel the red carpet and limo! No, it is great that he's exceeded the target and I'll see what they say at parents' eve which is coming up soon. They only do drama for one lesson, once every two weeks. He's obviously going to be a higher level than kids who haven't done any drama as he's been doing it since he was quite young but I appreciate that this wouldn't make someone g&t. If 5a is the highest they go in Yr 7 then he could be the only one on a 5a out of 200 kids or he could be one of 50! Who knows? A question for parents' eve. I don't mind either way but it would be nice to know. On further questioning, he is now not sure whether or not she did actually say that 5a was indeed the highest level possible!