AIBU to be cross with school over uniform 'clamp down' and stop and search

[breathedeeply]

My 15 yr old goes to a comprehensive with a clear uniform policy that includes a blazer tie and 'house' jumper . Recently we were sent a letter advising us that students would be sent home if their unforms were not 'immaculate'. This has led to students being sent home for virtually nothing (a shirt with no top button, or 'improper' shoes). There has been a particular issue over school trouser, which must be 'tailored' and not 'skinny fit'. My DD's friend was told that her trousers were unacceptable because the teacher concerned 'could see the outline of her bottom' (..er...yuk), and she burst into tears and said she just had a big bum and therefore all her trousers were tight. Also, they've just introduced a 'stop and search' policy whereby teachers can demand that pupils empty their bags and pockets to be checked for forbidden items (smoking materials). Is this sort of thing common, and how legal is it?

bunbaker when I lived in Germany the girls weren't bitchy about each others clothes, ditto Sweden and France. It just wasn't an issue at all, kids just wore the same clothes to school that they would wear at the weekend - jeans and t-shirts mainly with a variation of shorts in the summer and boots and big pullovers in the winter. [shrug]

Where I live in the UK all sixth forms are non-uniform and again there is no issue. The sixth formers just look like scruffy students, as it should be!

If a school has a uniform policy it needs to be fair across the sexes and enforced across the school. Once students realise (fair) rules are rules then other rules will (probably) be adhered to. e.g. lateness, mobile phones, jewellery etc.

Schools need to stop being so hard on girls! Their uniform rules take up a whole page whereas boys take up a line or two! If girls' uniform rules were less then it would be more easily enforced. And if one teacher gives a detention for one student's short skirt then ALL teachers should give a dentention for ALL students' short skirts. Also Dd2 was constantly complaining e.g. 'Miss gave ME a detention for wearing make-up but she didn't give Katie one for wearing dangly earrings'. I'd always back the school but I could see how frustrating the random enforcement was.

Thanks for your comments. I am a teacher too, and I think uniform policing is ridiculous. It is mainly done because parents tend to believe that the school with the strictest uniform will have the best results and the best discipline, and head teachers are vying to attract kids with 'supportive' parents who want them to achieve. I can't see that you can measure the 'immaculacy' of a school uniform without unfairly discriminating against the poorer kids, whose uniforms may well be 'scruffier' (ie not washed as often due to fewer sets of clothes, or more bobbled due to cheaper material, or just a bit too small). Surely this can't be right.

malinois I think by the 6th form it isn't a problem. In years 7, 8 and 9 it is, certainly in DD's school.

Sorry margery. What about "looking like slags" then? Because some of them really do!

As a Governor, who has seen these initiatives come and go (time and time again), the strict clampdowns never work other than to stop the deteriation getting worse. The first step causes confrontation and even parents arguing with school (some normally quite reasonable parents too). No one can continue this effort for forever, when there is teaching to get on with, so the policy strictness dies down. The positive outcome is that standards don't fall too far with this system but the children see through it. The year 11s for example have seen the initiatives come and go and they just see it through and then drop standards again and tell the younger ones to do the same.

Same with homework policy. Teachers are told to give homework but some don't to, for a myriad of reasons. So, we go through the crack down when they all do - including ridiculous tasks in some cases, just so the teacher can say they have set something. Soon the SLT find something else of
More importance and leave the teachers alone, and we go back to less homework but relevant stuff.

What really annoys me is the absurd attitude to earrings. My daughter had tiny studs which didn't exceed a total value as per the school rules. What the rules meant according to the school were tiny ball studs not a tiny knot. Hers, quiet, compliant girl who is extremely shy, were confiscated in Y7 - hers would never have infringed the rules. Further up the school, and one with a strictly enforced uniform, some of the girls did look very inappropriate and one of the secretaries hardly set an example with hoop earrings you could put your fist throught.

We love rules here but only when they are consistent and when compliant children are not bullied and clamped down on because teaching staff know they are the ones who will not answer back.

Parents are frequently told to pick their battles. It seems to me quite bizarre that schools are lauded for creating totally unnecessary friction.

I have two preteens and my experience is similar to malinous, the children wear pretty ordinary clothes to school, it's just not a big deal. Bullies will pick on all sorts of things regardless of whether there is a uniform in place or not, what matters is whether the school deals with it effectively. I'd rather dd got gyp for wearing her own choice of clothes than the grief I got at school for looking scruffy because the uniform was so badly made it didn't fit me properly. It made me really angry. I would have never worn such uncomfortable ugly clothes by choice!

Here is at primary that parental income is obvious.
The embroidered jumpers are expensive, but not compulsory. Therefore, less well off children tend to wear cheap plain ones.

It's a MC area, the poorer children and the looked after ones were the only ones without logos, it was really

There are very few second hand jumpers because they get washed till the embroidery frays and the cuffs disintegrate. By the time ours had done two DDs they were fit only for a scarecrow.

"Parents are frequently told to pick their battles"

I agree, and I wouldn't waste my time arguing about school uniform.

Sorry but need to disagree re "schook uniform is not compulsory" it can be at secondary school and anyway, you have signed (as have your DCs) a home school agreement at the start of the year to agree to comply wit school rules and policies....

In a way "rules is rules" and, unless challenged via school council etc have been agreed on entry to the school and should be adhered to.

My kids schools are pretty strict about uniform - right supplier right skirt style etc and compliance is policed to a reasonable extent. However it's a slective school so the kids know if they want to be there they need to toe the line to an extent.

My kids are pretty good. Youngest is pushing the skirt length at the moment " because it's too tight to walk fast in" round the hem apparently (she's 12 and couldn't care less about boys so she's probably right - the skirt is pretty loose at the waist though so it isn't a sizing thing).

So far i've said- well it's your choice- you get pulled up I'll make you wear your trousers.... Actually what happens is keep out of trouble and noone will moan about minor things. End up in the head of years office for poor work and they'll have you for skirt length, any make up at all and probably not polishing your shoes too! I think that's quite a good way for the land to lie really.

Um.

I don't think "slags" is any more palatable than "tarts".

I do think that some of the girls look awful. Mega short skirts, or skin-tight trousers (which look unhygienic) and blouses open to their waists. Some also have artfully laddered tights and wear ballet flats that have disintegrated until they're walking on only a sole.

Some boys and girls go for the scruffy look, but I don't think that's so bothersome.

Aside form the arse comment, I am really impressed that a school takes it uniform so seriously, I think it sends a good message to the pupils.

As long as the school offer help to poorer pupils I can't see how this is bad for anyone/.

DD is in year six and the school she will be going to in September has a lot of pupils who are not really adhering to the school uniform policy and look like they are off for a night clubbing. DD finds their appearance intimidating and is worried about moving schools.

DS is at a different secondary school and they do seem to adhere to the uniform there. It gives a positive impression of the behaviour of the pupils and makes the school seem safer.

I commented earlier - but one example of how it's taken to extremes, was the 1st parents evening I attended at his senior school. I had 10 minute slots with a variety of his teachers. The first one was his chemistry teacher, who spent the 1st 5 minutes telling me how scruffy he was (his shirt always out of his trousers when he sits at the chemistry bench).

When I asked about his progress/homework behaviour. I got "Oh that's all fine"!

"As long as the school offer help to poorer pupils I can't see how this is bad for anyone"

Unless the school insists on the parents buying everything from a school uniform supplier it wouldn't be any more expensive than not wearing uniform. DD was given her blazer and I had to buy a tie. The shirts and trousers I could buy anywhere.

You'd think that given that this article is 20 years old, we'd all be a little wiser about image vs. education when it comes to uniform.

I've often wondered why independent sixth forms often don't ditch their "business formal" dress codes, when in a very short while their pupils will look like every other young person still in education. The now 39-year old Miss Whittaker will find the micro-minis still provide distraction and incur sanctions. And before someone says the non-uniform policy at a certain well-performing London girls' senior school makes for competition and anorexic pressures, there is more than a fair share there of amply proportioned, reasonably dressed lasses who are fine with how they and their clothes look.

Seriously though, does image improve behaviour, if so, should uniform be designed so as to make it more difficult to brawl? Or should schools be run properly so that they expect and help their clientele to behave and work better no matter what they wear?

Sorry about that. Slags is a horrible word i agree. Looking at the girls yesterday. Yuck. Some of them, not all of them, but mostly the oldest in school. Even worse than the uniform was the spitting! Walking past and spitting every few steps.

I recently started a thread about school uniform clampdown.
After making enquiry with the school, they informed me that the law had changed and the school cannot refuse to educate a child on the basis of whether or not their uniform is correct. I don't know if this is maybe a Scotland only thing though, and when I get the chance I'll look for the relevant legislation.

I hated paying out for dd's school uniform, cost over £200. But reading these threads, I'm glad of it now. Every child has the exact same uniform, in the same material, same design. They do inspect at the doors and if a child isn't correctly dressed they aren't allowed in the lesson.

It stops any of the bitching about who is wearing what altogether. I do think in the case of the OP maybe there should have been a period of switchover where the children were warned rather than sent straight home.

As for searches, I got an email yesterday saying that the school is employing the services of drugs dogs to check the school at random times. While it seems a great idea when I think of the dealing in the loos when I was at school, I can't help wondering where the money is coming from to pay for this! And we are not in an inner city area, it's a very affluent village!

My kids' schools have uniforms and I send them to school dressed in the appropriate uniform. Not sure what the fuss is about. If a girl's trousers show the outline of her bum she needs a larger size of trousers. Some girls do go to school in stupidly tight, short inappropriately revealing clothes. Parents should refuse to buy non uniform clothes or let them go in if not in uniform. Or home school them if they don't like the idea of uniforms and don't want to crush their precious poppet's "free spirit" ( and hope they never apply for a job where a uniform or professional standard of dress is expected)

"or not let them go in" should have said.

So very glad to live in a country where no one cares what the kids wear to school therefore the dc dont feel the need to rebel. Picked dd up yesterday from her high school - think nearly every child who walked past had jeans or leggings on and a top or jumper (and most with the obligatory big scarf of course ). And there is no pressure to wear a certain label or piece of clothing - they just wear what they want.
Does them not wearing a uniform affect their behaviour/attendance/learning? Doesnt seem to have a negative effect and the teachers can get on with teaching rather than bullying pupils about their clothes.