RGS and Guildford High School

[Peppin]

What are these schools like and how hard are they to get into?

DS and DD are in village primary at present. DS is year 5, DD year 3. DS was assessed on last school report as being 2 or 3 "bands" above where they expect the average child to be by the end of year 5; DD is on gifted and talented register and does her literacy and numeracy with the year group above her. But neither has had any 11+ type coaching (yet).

Am seriously considering moving both into private sector from 2013 onwards. Like the sound of RGS and G'frd High School but wondering if DS in particular would be prejudiced by not having been coached for 11+ enough in advance. Would also like to know what the social side is like - are the kids at both schools mainly nice, is there much bullying, etc? What are the head teachers like?

All comments gratefully received!

In my sons year, they had 3 classes of 20 ish in the first form (year 7) and then added another 3 classes of the same size for the 3rd form. - so nearly 120 ( but if may be diff now)

Remember that a lot of those, maybe most of those, who join in the third form DO take the entrance exam at 11 and then defer their place til 13, so all those taking the exam are not looking for their place til they are 13, so the numbers are not so scary ( so 600 chasing 120 places, not 600 chasing 60 places in the example given above)

My DS is in current year 7. There are 4 forms of 25 boys = 100 places.
In year 9 another 2 forms join = 150 places in total.
As gettingalifenowsays all these will take the entrance exam in year 6 and some then choose to stay at prep school and defer place to year 9.
My guess on the numbers taking the exam last year with DS: around 350 - 400.
Twas not as scary as I anticipated. TBH I think people don't even try because they think it is so hard to get in.

Thanks both. Ivysquirrel, you mentioned earlier in the thread that you live Worplesdon/Stoughton side of town - what would be your state secondary on that side?

Am reasonably confident that with a bit of encouragement DS will be OK with the 11+ but in the event that he isn't, I need to get more of an idea of other alternatives (Salesian has been mentioned, will look at that...). The provision for boys doesn't seem as comprehensive as that for girls.

My nearest state schools are Kings College & Christs College. Kings has had poor reputation recently but has just entered a federation with George Abbott (they will share an 'Executive Head') and that should improve things. Christ's very much improved in last few years, very overtly Christian so may not suit you. County was our first choice, we were offered Christs (we are Christian, but not wedded to the idea of a faith school), but I think we would probably have got into County from waiting list as children further away from the schol than us did.
Obviously most sought after school in Guildford is George Abbott - that is why house prices are so much higer on that side of the town! We didn't even look as knew no chance from where we are. Similarly St Peters, too far away and to stand much chance you need to be RC really.
Can't really comment in depth on schools I don't know personally, but I will say that I have friends with DC in all these schools and very happy with them.

You are right to say that there is less choice for boys than girls when it comes to private. I know boys at St Johns Leatherhead & Reeds in Cobham, but no real choice in Guildford itself.

St John's in Leatherhead looks a lot more expensive! Haven't looked at Reeds yet.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on the state schools. I know County is popular so surprised (pleasantly) to hear kids your side of town have got in there. I'd heard Christs has quite a poor reputation, is that changing? We are not religious and definitely not RC so I've not looked at any overtly Christian or RC schools.

I feel so anxious about getting DS into the "right" school for him next time round. He has had an unhappy time at primary school and only last night was very upset about not being popular and being mocked for "enjoying school". But perversely, he is quite anti going anywhere other than our local comp (where all the nasty little gits in his class will go). He can't really articulate why, apart from "better to stick with what you know". I had hoped the prospect of a new start would be more appealing to him so am now just hoping hard that when we actually visit RGS soon, he will pick up something of the fact that there are schools out there where everyone enjoys school and doesn't get picked on for it.

Hello again peppin, yes Christs has had a poor reputation but is really improving and in fact is now over-subscribed. Friends of mine are very happy with it. But you do need to be OK with the Christian aspect.

So understand your anxiety re the right school. My DS1 was always happy at primary but I knew that in secondary he would need a challenge or would quickly get bored and disruptive. I was also concerned about it not being ok in some schools to work hard and do well academically. All along I tried to take a fatalistic view that if RGS was the right place for him he would get in and if not, that it just wasn't meant to be! Have you been for a visit yet?

We are visiting tomorrow! So we'll see what DS thinks...

Yes, you should start tutoring now (either yourself or find somebody else). I don't think any sane person doubts that practicing VR & NR substantially improves base scores. There are basic techniques which have to be acquired & your child needs to know what to look for in the less obvious, "harder" questions. And remember, in reality, it is these harder questions which are likely to be the tie breakers at the end of the day. So, if you don't tutor in some way, no matter how bright your child is, they're at a marked disadvantage.

Incidentally, as I put in another thread, I smile when these schools tell us they select on potential & so don't coach. They wouldn't know potential if they found it asleep in their bed. They select on test scores, nothing else.

Have read your posts re RGS and GHS. Have child at each school. For RGS recommend use Learning Together series of VR books available from Galore Park. RGS used to use multichoice format - takes some getting used to so worth doing some practice but check they still do - Registrar should be happy to tell you. Definitely worth practice as they are quite tricky (generally harder than bond papers, I think) but ok once you are familiar with type of questions scores improve. Interview is done in pairs or threes with one or more teachers. Sometimes ask odd questions eg if you were a biscuit what sort would you like to be and why? Hope this helps

Thanks guildfordmaof2 and "ewee". We visited RGS. DS seemed to really like it and felt he would "fit in" there much better than in his current school. He loved all the science stuff and seemed very animated.

The headmaster I thought was fantastic and when I asked about prep for the test he said that his own son had had to practise VR beforehand, which I reminded DS of afterwards. DS said that having seen the school, he would like to go there. I said fine well then you need to work on practising for the test now and he said he would. Then I said good, well, I expect you to do so and if you don't then you will have your PS3 privileges withdrawn until your attitude improves, and he went into a sulk about it.

I don't understand DS' mindset. He is unhappy at his primary school, where he is picked on for being a "brainbox", and yet he says he wants to go to the same state secondary that the boys who are horrible to him will go to. I would have thought that a fresh start somewhere new would be much more appealing. Equally, I would have thought that it would appeal to go to a school where the standard is high and he isn't bored (which he is at his school). All he has to do is a bit of preparation. It's not as though the work is difficult for him - he is scoring around 80% on English/Maths/VR papers having only done a couple so far - so all he needs is a bit of "exam technique" coaching and he should be fine. But he moans and groans about it as if he were being asked to write a dissertation!

I feel he is surrounded by mediocrity and the expectation of mediocrity in his current school and has begun to think that that is OK. I really want him to go to RGS where he will be in an environment where high standards are expected, so that he will lift his eyes beyond the current horizon and focus on doing his best, not just "good enough".

Not sure how to motivate him. I would have chewed my own arm off for the opportunity he is being given, at his age. Any suggestions for how to make a recalcitrant 10 year old knuckle down to some work?

If only I knew the answer to that one! I think you do need to put some work in but probably not too early - entrance tests are in early Jan and the thought of doing extra work between now and then would put most boys off. You might want to start seriously during October half term, especially as his scores sound quite good.

I'm new to Mumsnet and don't know the official line on bribery but it is the staple currency in my house. We would only allow computer games after he'd done a paper and the corrections. We also (and I should probably be ashamed to admit this) gave him a list of places we would take him in the holidays if he worked hard for the exams. He was into the Roman Mysteries at the time and he chose for us to spend a week wandering around Rome and Ostia which we all really enjoyed and might have done anyway.

Perhaps let him choose a time to do the work and hold him to it. If he won't work for you, don't beat yourself up - I've known teachers who can't motivate their own children. If you can afford it that's the time to get an outside tutor to set homework - it gives them some one else to answer to if they don't work. You would probably need to do some research now and book sessions later in the year as they do get booked up.

Perhaps you could also find out some more about RGS and some of the things it offers that the state secondary might not. After school clubs in practically anything you can think of, field days twice a term where the whole school goes off for a day and does something fun/energetic/educational, the chance to play at soldiers/sailors/airmen in the third form when they can join the CCF (not everyone's ideal, I know, but great fun and does not make them queue to join the forces).

He may get the impression that RGS is all about work but he should not worry. They are taught so well that homework is quite light compared to other schools and there is no unnecessary homework or parents' homework. If he is a minimalist, like my DS, that might appeal.

Thanks for your reply guildfordmaof2. Bribery has worked in the past but I think we may have tipped too far in that direction such that there is a little bit of a sense of entitlement creeping in. I need to set more boundaries, as you suggest - no PS3 until after work is done.

Have got a couple of the Bond 10 Minute Tests books coming and I think for now we'll just stick to doing a couple of those a couple of times a week so that it's in very short chunks and doesn't feel too onerous. Also with the holidays coming, I'll ask him where he'd like to go for a treat.

I genuinely think he would really love RGS and he was very interested in all the clubs and so on, though I don't think he understands how different that is to most state schools, so perhaps he needs a visit to a couple of state secondaries to compare and contrast...

Hmm. I really doubt the wisdom of people who say go easy on tutoring. That's fine if the DC are at prep schools or very strong state primaries, but where mediocrity is the norm and brains are mocked I'd say he may have been held back and will need some tutoring (from you or externally) to get him up to speed.

Do they really frown on tutored children from state schools? They don't frown on prep schools which after all are full time tutoring facilities. Have they any idea quite how complacently mediocre some state teaching is? If I were you I'd get him practising now. There's six months until exams. If he does a paper a week, that's only six or seven papers of each type between now and then. He'll need to feel confident finishing on time, checking work, and if his school is anything like ours, simply learning to sit quietly and working in silence for a few hours. It would be sad for him to miss out on a place because you had trusted advice not to tutor. No one else does! I don't mean to scare monger. I'm sure he'll be fine. But a bit of preparation before any exam makes sense and 11+ is no different.

Although we have never used a paid tutor, we have encouraged practice with maths/english/vr at home.....so I guess you could call that tutoring....My main aim with this is to encourage confidence when faced with an exam situation.
Bribery is fine in my book. We use reward type charts with cold hard cash when a certain target is reached. I think that works better than banning games/tv with my DC, and feels more positive. They choose to work = they get the reward!

Thanks racingheart, I suspect what you say is true and so we have been practising VR and English once/twice a week. DS has decided he is really keen to go to RGS now so is much more willing to settle down to some work, which is great. However, I don't want to over-do it and cause him to lose interest too early, though neither do I want him to be under-prepared. It's so hard to know how much is the right amount, and what sort of average mark would indicate he is likely to be OK. At the moment I reckon he is scoring 80-85% across the 3 subjects.

Ivysquirrel, how much prep are you doing at the moment?

Two papers a week at present, just moved up to 11+ level. After we have been away on holiday in a couple of weeks will go up to 3 a week. VR I think is most important as not covered at school. Prob increase again after Oct half term and poss.also do the Bond 10 minute tests.
IMO this is not a huge amount of extra work for an able child.
DS1 has just got in from his last 'Field day' of the year, building dens in a country park. It is not all about the academic!