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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

If a student regularly completes their work early...

34 replies

Aranea · 18/04/2012 12:40

... Is it good and common practice to tell them that they may spend the remaining lesson time reading? Not my child but I was surprised to hear about this and wondered if it was regarded as a good thing.

OP posts:
titchy · 18/04/2012 12:45

It can be if they're reading something relevant to the subject that will stretch them. Reading Hello magazine probably wouldn't be regarded as good!

If a few students are completing their work early though the teacher should have some actual extension work available as well as wider reading.

Aranea · 18/04/2012 12:52

In this case the student is just reading unrelated fiction.

OP posts:
thirdhill · 18/04/2012 13:28

Let's see, what would I do if the pupil has finished the extension work too?

Force them to temper their progress to your standards?
Make them do it again? And again. And again.
Ignore them as long as they sit quietly staring at their completed work?
Tell them to go somewhere else more suitable? Oops but we tell everyone we're the best school on the planet...
Ignore my own insecurities and let them explore at their own pace something loosely academic?

Some kids spend a dozen years waiting out school, and if they're allowed to follow their interests, even if it's fiction, maybe that will keep their natural curiosity alive and humour intact. I struggle with fully understanding parents saying their child is bored. Boredom is not a behaviour related to learning. The best thing a child like that can learn is to be confident about searching out what they want to learn. Have some mercy. Let the chap read the book.

Agree with titchy that some material is less good though.

sugartongue · 18/04/2012 13:56

It was what happened to me - the only way to stop me distracting the rest of the class by chatting to them was to let me read a book. And it was a massive benefit to me - all that extra reading of decent literature instead of someone making me do some more sums...

titchy · 18/04/2012 14:26

Reading unrelated fiction sounds a bit crap tbh. Why can't they read a book on the subject?

Sugartongue - no point making you repeat endless equations, but surely giving you harder equations would have been beneficial.

thirdhill · 18/04/2012 14:30

Why force Einstein to read Goethe when he's torn between whether to sort out Brownian motion or the photoelectric effect etc first?

titchy · 18/04/2012 14:52

Becuase we are talking about secondary aged children here who have not yet had the breadth of curriculum to determin whether they will be the next Einstein or Wittgenstein.

Ivik · 18/04/2012 15:12

If I was a teacher, I would let the pupil read a book of his own choice. I would only check if it's appropriate.

slug · 18/04/2012 15:55

Reading fiction has all sorts of advantages

  1. It is an incentive to the student. Not only will they be gainfully occupied while the teacher gives time attention to the struggling students, if the student in question actually enjoys reading then they will be less resentful of having to attend the class.
  1. reading improves vocabulary and introduces concepts outside normal daily life.
  1. Reading fiction may trigger an interest they may pursue at a later date. e.g. I read my Mother's Issac Bashiev Singer and Chaim Potok books while bored on holiday when 10I was a precocious brat. While there was much there I didn't understand, it triggered an interest in religions and cultures that ultimately determined what I studied for my first degree.
sugartongue · 18/04/2012 17:13

I forgot this was in secondary education and was thinking about primary - not give a secondary pupil more work to do is unbelievably lazy! Would not be impressed - presumably classes are set so it is easier to differentiate, sloppy stuff

tabulahrasa · 18/04/2012 17:19

If the work they've finished was appropriate (challenged them a bit and possibly included extension work) it can be.

Pupils get a bit unhappy if you reward finishing work by giving them more work... and some pupils finish everything you can throw at them quickly.

But if they're routinely finishing very early because the work is just way below their ability level then no.

thirdhill · 18/04/2012 17:29

"Becuase we are talking about secondary aged children here who have not yet had the breadth of curriculum to determin whether they will be the next Einstein or Wittgenstein"

So it would be OK for a sixth former to read anything s/he wants, when they've done the work and homework and extension work with a period and a half to go?

I see why 14 year olds who elect not to start university must hate school. Rules is rules, we'll flex up to the point you break.

IHeartKingThistle · 18/04/2012 17:36

Secondary teachers (I am one) are expected to provide extension work to stretch the most able. This would NOT be considered good practice, even in my English classroom. No-one's disputing the benefits of reading though!

thirdhill · 18/04/2012 18:02

We are talking secondary school here.

You'll run out of work very soon for the "most able". They may already know there're ahead of most graduates by secondary school, they'll definitely be far more intellectually agile and depth will come very quickly.

Why should breadth of curriculum prevent depth of learning? The "most able" can easily cope with both, this is curtailing depth using breadth as an excuse.

However if you're ever get an Einstein in your working lifetime, they'll be smart enough to get by, and pass the years sweetly tempering their responses to your standards. You won't even know they were there, the "good practice" will have them declared as late developers, when they hatched unnoticed under your noses.

titchy · 18/04/2012 18:02

Third hill not sure what you're saying.... A bright (after all they've completed the requires class work) 14 year old may not at that time want to go to university but rhey do change their minds and for the teacher to write them off and let them read whatever they want is seriously lazy IMO.

Glad you're not teaching my dcs!

thirdhill · 18/04/2012 18:04

sorry titchy I should have been clearer.

I was musing over the increasing number of 14 years olds who are well ready for university at that age and choose to stay at school for several more years.

thirdhill · 18/04/2012 18:05

"Glad you're not teaching my dcs!"

haha so am I!

titchy · 18/04/2012 18:14

Actually so am I!!! Grin

IHeartKingThistle · 18/04/2012 18:29

Thirdhill it's not MY definition of good practice - I said that this is what I am expected to do. If I were being observed and told a student who had finished a task to read I would probably be 'marked down' for that under the new OFSTED criteria.

My students are given reading lists, complete reading records and talk about books they've read in class. But when doing written tasks I am expected to provide extension tasks around the same topic or skill.

To be honest at the moment I am just too wearied by the constant observations and changes of goalposts to have an opinion on the matter.

LesAnimaux · 18/04/2012 18:38

As a parent I'd like to say I wouldn't' be impressed.

But, TBH, if my DS is not disrupting the rest of the class after finishing his work I am just grateful. Blush

thirdhill · 18/04/2012 21:39

IHeart, I'd have a teacher who's brave enough to look with fresh eyes at their pupils and checks for themself what lights up their lives any day, over one that lacks imagination and professional integrity, and resorts to following the pack leader's formula blindly, with their eye on the next promotion. There are good schools that nurture these teachers and parents and pupils hold them with affection and gratitude. That's what lasts, not an ofsted rating because some superficial indicator was reached that did not touch anyone's life. It's nice when they get good ratings too. Despite superficial chaos and casualness, somehow results are good and the kids stay on the rails, becoming adults you'd like to know.

I accept though that parents tend to get what they look for. They're too timid to trust a child's innate curiosity and drive to learn, and end up burying it, never to be found again, in pursuit of some fashionable educational accessory.

Ask yourself if you're more likely to get 5 A* A2s through an enforced regime of best practice or through the joy and adventure in seeking knowledge. One is tiring and the other tireless. Both can easily be taught.

IHeartKingThistle · 18/04/2012 22:23

Don't tell me I lack imagination and professional integrity. I was answering the question the OP asked - I answered it in a bit of a jaded way, perhaps, but that's how I'm feeling today. And quite how we've got from letting a student read after finishing a task to an attack on my approach to teaching is beyond me.

I couldn't care less about the latest OFSTED fad but unfortunately no-one above me cares about anything else. 'Following it blindly' would be the easy option. Jumping through the hoops I have to jump through, knowing how much better it could be, is fucking torture.

Please don't pass judgement without knowing what you're talking about. I can't believe I've let a comment from a stranger upset me this much when I know I am a good teacher (yes, with imagination and integrity) and so do my students and 12 years of my ex-students, who I have worked very very hard for.

I agree with your philosophy of education. If I didn't, if I was 'following blindly', I wouldn't be feeling jaded and weary.

thirdhill · 19/04/2012 08:40

IHeart it wasn't meant to criticize you, and the fact that you feel the way you do means you're in the right job. Despite the crude interventions you're living with. You obviously know that teaching people the joy of learning is about the most important thing a person can do, and fashions will pass. That said, spending 5% of your time and effort jumping through the hoops will mean the system keeps teachers like you on, and those kids need you. Thanks and Wine

Cortina · 19/04/2012 09:14

Thirdhill are you a teacher? Round of applause for this: Ask yourself if you're more likely to get 5 A* A2s through an enforced regime of best practice or through the joy and adventure in seeking knowledge. One is tiring and the other tireless. Both can easily be taught.

The 'tick box list' seems to apply in our school. I often want to shout to teachers 'apply your intellect - you know he can do it, we both do' but alas their hands are tied.

IHeartKingThistle · 19/04/2012 09:27

Thanks thirdhill. Was a bit overtired last night Blush. My day off today will work wonders, I'm sure!

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