triple science / single science / combinations of subjects

[emanwen]

Just researching possible secondary schools and realise the world has changed since I was at school!

I've heard people talking about factoring in what sort of science schools offer when choosing a secondary school... what does it actually mean?

When I was at school you could choose all (or none) of Bio, Chem or Phys. Is doing double or triple science a watered down version? ie. if you do triple science does that count as 1 GCSE?
If your child was very science-y would you be aiming for a school that offered single, double or triple science or one that seemed to list choices of Bio, Ph, Chem etc by name?

Or does it not matter so much because the science for uni choices would be at A level?
I've just looked at a secondary school's website which just lists in their core subjects "science" and "modern languages" - do you think that means you study a bit of everything in one combined science and a mixture of modern languages rather than doing eg GCSE French?

This is also making me think - when you're choosing a school is it always obvious what combination of subjects tends to be available? or could you find your DC having chosen a school, only to discover you can't do a language if you do more than one science, or if you do Art you can't do extra maths etc?

Science - Nowadays you can't choose which science you do, you have to do a bit of all of them. You can either do single science which is only a very basic level (one module worth) of each. This equates to one GCSE. Generally this is taken by people who aren't naturally very good at science. Double (or dual award) science is a more in depth study of each science and the student studies two modules of all three sciences. This equates to two GCSEs and is generally offered to more able students. Triple science is the most academic of the three and gives an in depth study of each of the three sciences, studying three modules of each. This equates to three GCSEs. Not all schools offer triple award science though but this isn't something to panic about - you can still do A level science if you do dual award at GCSE.

MFL - This is just the general name for languages and in KS3 they might offer a variety. However by GCSE they will offer individual language GCSEs.

If you can find it on the school website it is worth looking at their GCSE options booklet if there is a download avaliable. This shows what GCSE pathways they'll have avaliable.

that is so helpful, thank you! I didn't realise that's how it worked now.

(What an odd way to organize science?

I was hopeless, really totally hopeless at physics, but pretty good at biology - if I'd had to mix the two I probably would have failed or just scraped a pass as physics would have dragged me down. Why on earth don't they offer a general science and then offer individual subjects for people who are more able in one or more of the sciences? )

I'll dig around some of the websites to see if I can find the options booklets!

You would have got Core science. In fact you probably would get additional too, you might just have struggled a bit with the triple bit of individual Physics. It is much better, as I know in my day kids dropped Chemistry and then couldn't do Biology because they needed Chemistry.

I agree, but then again the grade boundaries reflect that. By that what I mean is that the first module of science (that everyone takes) has very low grade boundaries - I believe it's around 29/45 to get an A*. That means that if you do well in the core and additional modules it is not impossible to get a good grade even if one science drags you down.

Upatdawn, well I know that isn't the case with AQA. maybe that's why their exams were judged the most rigorous recently.

However, I know a teacher got her 70 year old mother to do a core science paper. Her mother had only had about 1 term during her whole school career, because she changed schools a lot etc. Her mother got the equivalant of an A (pre A* days), just by general knowledge and reading comprehension.

DTS are on AQA and that appears to be the case. DS got 30/45 on a core biology paper and got over 90 UMS. I know with each module the grade boundaries get higher as less people do the exam, it's definitely not that low with B/C/P3!

AQA isn't that different to OCR in terms of score needed for A* as far as I've seen (I've had one dc do each), and it is frighteningly low especially for physics.

For double science it's worth pointing out that it's no longer called double science (as it used to be), but is now core science and either additional science or applied science, each of which are GCSEs in their own right, so you can get a different grade for core than you do for additional for example. The important thing to note is that additional science is the one you need to go on to do A levels in any of the sciences not applied science which seems to be an extra science GCSE aimed at non-scientists.

'triple science' is really just the lazy shorthand way of saying physics, chemistry and biology as separate GCSEs. These subjects are still offered as separate GCSEs but it is very unusual for a school to offer them individually these days - you either do all 3 or none (doing core and maybe either additional/applied instead).

upatdawn/mummytime the Jan 08 module scores for AQA for the science modules needed to gain 100%, A* and A are below (all out of 45):

100%,   A*,   A		

b1 33, 28, 23
b2 37, 32, 27
b3 34, 29, 24

c1 40, 34, 28
c2 41, 35, 29
c3 34, 29, 24

p1 36, 31, 26
p2 38, 32, 26
p3 36, 31, 26

The third modules about as easy as the first in most cases, although in all three subjects on this occasion the second paper seems to be the hardest. I think it's rather lamentable you can gain an A* getting more than a quarter of the paper wrong on all but two of them (c1 and c2).

Well we've been robbed then, because DS is on line for a B in Chemistry with better marks thn those, and his Physics A* should be in the bag.

Or has it got harder?

I've not looked lately mummytime as it's 2 or 3 years since ds did those modules, but those marks weren't atypical then. The results do generally creep up a little over time as the teachers get better with the syllabus and there are more past papers to practice with.

Well my DS is studying one new syllabus, admittedly not too different from the one before. Year 10 are studying another new one, and that is a more radical change. For Year 9 it is going to change again, it isn't finalised yet, but at present will be all on final exams, which is going to lead to time tabling issues.

Fortunately my younger child is in year 8, so hopefully will be the second year of a new syllabus.

I'm not sure if its a new syllabus that DS is doing but on a recent AQA mock (past paper of January 2011 I believe) he got 28/45 in B1 and 24/45 in B2. He got one mark off an A. I personally think that's shockingly low but then again the top mark in his class was 34/45 for the B1 so maybe it's just harder than we think?

You've all blinded me with science now!
DTS, AQA, OCR?
phy1, bio3... chem 2etc?? what do those levels mean?

AQA and OCR are exam boards, the other main one in England is EdExcel.
For AQA, the biggest board, anyway for Core Science you sit P1(or phys 1), B1 (or biol 1), and C1 (or chem1). For additional you do P2, B2 and C2. To get three separate sciences you just have to do P3 etc.
The really weird one is UMS, which is the score kind of fiddled, to give the correct grade, this is especially relevant when there is a problem with a question eg. One I saw was outside the syllabus strictly, another had two arguably correct answers.

Theyre not levels, they're modules. Think Biology part 1, Biology part 2 and Biology part 3 etc.

So if you do parts 1 of Bio, Phy and Chem you get one GCSE (called Core Science). If you do parts 1 and 2 you get 2 GCSEs (Double Science, or Core and Additional). If you do parts 1, 2 and 3 you get 3 GCSEs (in this case called confudingly Physics, Chemistry and Biology!)

Oh and I think all schools now have to offer all three sciences to their brightest students.

I am not a science teacher, but I do know that grade boundaries have changed recently. It is now much more difficult to get an A*. Also, with the move to the terminal exam system (rather than re-sittable modules) students will be under a lot more pressure.

Thanks all, very useful!

Grade boundaries change all the time. We are currently doing controlled assessments for the first time and have no idea what the grade boundaries will be.

All science gcses, no matter what board, are new this test. Very new. As far as we have been told, the specification itself (what the students actually learn) isn't changing, just the assessment shifted to the end of the course. But you never know in Education at the moment...

New this year!

To go back to your original question. Don't choose a school specifically for it's answer on any particular single question like this, as things will change between you looking round when your child is in Yr5 or 6 and when they are taking their GCSEs in Yr10 and 11.
Also, it's very difficult to predict from looking at a 10 yr old what they will be good at / enjoy when they are 15.
Take these things into account, but see them as only one part of the whole decision.
So, I factored in (when choosing my now Yr11 ds's school) the fact he would have the option of taking 3 sep sciences (he is - but there's not guarentee he would be interested at this age) and the fact he would have the option of taking 2 languages (the German teacher left after one year's lessons and was never replaced). If either of those points had been considered the crucial one then it could be disappointing.
Homework poilcy changed completely at the end of Yr7.
etc.,etc.

Most schools offer a range of science courses. What these are keep changing! And we tend to decide who does which course.

It could all be different again by the time your DC is doing GCSEs. Twice over

I can spell, honestly. It's just my fingers type quicker than my brain