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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Possible cheating in Art GCSE - should I tell someone?

30 replies

Perturbed · 12/04/2012 10:22

Name changed for this. I have a DC who goes to a local comp and is currently in year 8. DCs BF has a sibling in year 11 who is doing Art GCSE. DC and BF were at BF's house, discussing how much they dislike a certain art teacher. BF's sibling and mum who were in the room, piped up and said how helpful art teacher had been as s/he had literally completed some of the art coursework for sibling and told sibling not to worry about the unseen exam as s/he would help with that as well! This made me quite annoyed not least because I have another DC doing Art GCSE at another school who has spent hours and hours of their own time doing it all alone. My own DC is good at art and would like to do GCSE when the time comes but I would be mortified if DC was "helped" by the teacher - should I say something to the school or exam board? I don't want to land the BF's sibling in trouble but I am absolutely furious and quite disturbed by this and wonder if it extends further than the art department.

OP posts:

WipsGlitter · 12/04/2012 10:31

Its too much "he said, she said" for it to be taken seriously. Unless you are prepared to confront the other parent then I don't think there is much you can do.

Original poster

Perturbed · 12/04/2012 10:39

Yes, you are right, but is has certainly dented my confidence in the school. Hae to wait and see what happens when DC gets to that stage. I suppose the Art GCSE is unusual in that so much of the work is done independently - potentially even parents or siblings could "help".

OP posts:

FallenCaryatid · 12/04/2012 11:03

'told sibling not to worry about the unseen exam as s/he would help with that as well! '

How a teacher helps and how a parent helps are often entirely different things. Help could mean giving a structured list to ensure everything is covered, getting the child to make a shopping list of materials required, helping them with suggestions and support rather than 'Move over, I'll draw it and you can do painting by numbers'
There are various online sites about GCSE Art including support booklets. I suggest you have an explore before frothing and running to report on second hand hearsay.

Original poster

Perturbed · 12/04/2012 11:31

I have no idea what you are on about FallenCaryatid - perhaps you should go to the trouble of reading my post instead of telling me to read GCSE support booklets. No it is not hearsay, I think being told that a teacher has completed work instead of the student, by the student themself and their parent is pretty definitive. The meaning my child got was that the teacher would physically alter the GCSE final submission if necessary as they had done for the coursework. I do not believe my child to be a liar - they were shocked, which is why they told me. I am just glad that my own elder child, thankfully not at that school, will complete the GCSE without adult help. They are likely to get at least an A based on their own work without this level of intervention from the teacher - just normal teaching - the teacher does not touch their work let alone do it for them.

OP posts:

ggirltwin2pinot · 12/04/2012 11:36

Tbh in the grand scheme of things in life this is pretty small fry ..I wouldn't do anything.

FallenCaryatid · 12/04/2012 11:45

Go ahead and complain then, why are you posting? What are you expecting relpies to be other then yes, do or no don't?
Although you may find that OFSTED, the governors, the exam board and whoever else you choose to get involved will require evidence other than hearsay. And your real name.

FallenCaryatid · 12/04/2012 11:45

'relpies'?
Typing without checking.
replies

cricketballs · 12/04/2012 12:55

Perturbed - I think rather than being nasty to Fallen you need to read her reply more carefully.

Often we provide writing frames, clear step by step guidance to allow them to cover all the requirements of the specification that can be mis-interrupted by a student reporting back to his/her parent...unless you have clear evidence to accuse a teacher of 'cheating' and thereby putting their job, career and future in jeopardy then I would leave it alone.

this by no way means I agree with cheating but accusations without basis have ruined a lot of teachers lives

upatdawn · 12/04/2012 16:22

But help is allowed in art GCSE, that doesn't mean the teacher did the work for the student. It's exactly the same as a teacher in any other subject giving a student some advice on how to structure an essay for example. Tbh I would be more worried if a student was never given any advice on how their work was going and that lead to them submitting poor work.

I also agree with others that if you complain based on what you've said all that will happen is that anyone involved would deny it. To me it just sounds like what was said was taken out of context and all that was meant was that the teacher had been very helpful in pointing out what the student had to do to maximise her potential.

BoneyBackJefferson · 12/04/2012 20:47

hearsay

noun

unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge

maybenow · 12/04/2012 20:51

a teacher can help a student in many perfectly legal and legitimate ways with an exam.. saying that they will do so (if they did say that) doesn't mean that they will physically alter the artwork.

and fallen is right in that there is too much hearsay involved to know really whether cheating has happened or not.

does the child involved, the actual student being graded, belive that the help they recieved amounted to cheating? if so, and if they are willing to admit that, then there may be grounds for investigation.

callmemrs · 13/04/2012 10:57

So- your yr 8 kid has come back from a friends house with a tale about friends sibling having a helpful art teacher (and as others have pointed out- plenty of types of support are perfectly legit)

I think the exam board would laugh their tits off at you quite frankly. You don't have a shred of real evidence of anything untoward. To me it sounds like classic older sibling trying to score points- 'oh you've got a rubbish art teacher; mines brilliant and has given me loads of help'.
Get a grip and a life.

Original poster

Perturbed · 13/04/2012 11:48

No my child came back with a "tale" that an art teacher had completed work for a child for a GCSE. I do not think fraud is acceptable even if you do. I would rather report it and be laughed at than allow fraud to go unchallenged as it undermines the whole system. So sorry if teachers have a problem with that!

OP posts:

callmemrs · 13/04/2012 13:11

I am sure teachers would have a problem with fraud... The point everyone is making here is you have no evidence of it. If you seriously want to approach the exam board and tell them 'my year 8 child said someone at another school got their art teacher to do their work for them' then fine- go ahead. Because that's all you can say. You've got no evidence whatsoever. You sound like a real busybody tbh

Minx179 · 13/04/2012 17:24

Perturbed - I recognise what you are saying, in that it is frustrating if a child gets help over and above that what is allowed.

However, having reported my DS's school for cheating, I agree with the above posters in that what you have is all heresay, it would be difficult to prove it within the school; as upatdawn states the school would close ranks if it was true. Unless you have something concrete to take to an examination board they are unlikely to even look at your claims.

Shriekable · 13/04/2012 17:44

The problem you have is that if you put in a complaint, the teacher, pupil, and DC's friend's mother will probably all deny the allegation. And then it's going to be your DC's word against theirs. If you really want to get to the bottom of this then I think you should approach the mother, but in a friendly tone rather than accusatory. A whiff of you being pissed off and she'll clam up.

VivaLeBeaver · 13/04/2012 17:50

No. They would both deny it and you have no proof.

Geranium3 · 13/04/2012 22:08

sounds like a case of bf's mum and sibling showing off a bit, some parents like to think that their little darlings are favoured in the classroom, really don't think child involved has been given an unfair advantage as art is not a definite right or wrong answer as a subject such as maths would be

Kez100 · 13/04/2012 22:44

You could just as easily have an unconfident youngster being told by the teacher not to worry because he/she will help. Teacher will only ever help within the rules but child (with renewed confidence) goes off to try to do her/his own work happy that 'miss' will help if she struggles, and she will, but only as far as is allowed.

Kez100 · 13/04/2012 22:49

Remember they were retaliating against a discussion dissing this teacher. If they thought it was unfair negatively (because they like her) they may well have over emphasised why they like her (positively) to redress the balance of the argument.

There is so much that can have been misconstrued here.

namechangingagain · 13/04/2012 22:53

I think its bull, there is no way a teacher would put their life on the line like this and what teacher has the time to do their pupils work for them.

Your DC has misunderstood/misconstrued or the parents and DC she was with are winding her up, or talking bollox.

luckylavender · 14/04/2012 11:45

And IF it really were happening they would never have talked about it in the first place. You need to back off or the only loser will be your DC

Northernlurker · 14/04/2012 11:51

You want to attack a teacher's reputation and upset a child approaching tehir GCSEs based on hearsay from your Year 8 child? You're out of your mind.

Kindly keep you 'fury' to yourself. You know nothing about what's happening here and you could do massive damage in teh course of being proved absolutely gobsmackingly wrong.

maples · 14/04/2012 11:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

callmemrs · 14/04/2012 12:07

Yes- cheating does happen in exams - I'm sure we've all heard of cases where there is evidence of untoward behaviour. In most cases it is the pupil cheating and occasionally the lecturer/ teacher is found at fault.
But this 'case' is frankly laughable. There is no evidence whatsoever- just a couple of gossipy 12/13 year olds and a mother with too much time on her hands.

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