Travel from Clapham to Sutton Grammar

[ClaphamMum1]

My son has just been offered a place at Sutton Grammar at the second round, after being on the waiting list. Even though it was his second choice, and his third choice was previously offered, we are re-thinking whether to accept it due to travel. There is a train from Clapham Junction to Sutton every 20 min and the journey is around 20-35 minutes (a lot of stops) but then there is 10 min walk so door to door it will be 1 hr journey to and back. He is 11 and I am still talking him to his local primary and I am dreading the thought to let him go by himself. Any thoughts? Are there private coaches for the grammars that we could sign up to? I am prepared to pay as long as he is traveling safe. What happens if trains are delayed, or there are no trains? In winter there could be snow and bad weather conditions, how is he going to come home? I work full time in the other end of the city and am a single mum. Any info / advice from parents who already have the same issue much appreciated ASAP.

Boys travel regularly to the Sutton grammars (and nearby private schools) from clapham junction. They meet friends on the way, and probably have easier journeys than others going by bus to nearer schools. They seem very small in year 7 but quickly grow into their independence. Our DS will be travelling from balham and I'm sure there will be other grammar school boys too. I would go for it if I were you, unless you have a really good school alternative .

How did you think he was getting to school in year 7?
It's a long day but no more than a lot of secondary school kids make.
What would be your back up if trains were cancelled...what is school's attitude to it?
Maybe let him walk to school for the rest of year 6!!!!

It seems like a long journey now, but after a week or two it will seem like nothing at all. I know children who travel the same distance every day and they all take it completely in their stride. He will be fine

Meant to also say that schools generally let the children out early if weather conditions worsen.

And yes, you should be letting him start to develop some independence now -let him walk to/from school on his own, get him a zip card and encourage him to get the bus to a friends house, etc.

I did have a giggle at the thopught of private coaches for out of borough children - that would go dwn well wouldnt it even if you were paying for it. tbh at that time of day the coach would take longer.

Surely you thought about this when you put him in for the exam?

In answer to your specific question about how he would come home when there were no trains, he would get the bus to Morden and then the Northern Line up. The bus from Morden stops 2 mins from the school.

I suspect it will be an hour minimum, and I do think the length of journey has an impact on how much children can throw themselves into school life. I don't know much about Sutton but as he gets older he may find he wants to stay later at school doing activities (I don't think this is such an issue for year 7/8 but as they get older they can be expected to be more flexible). His friends will be travelling from all directions too. So, I think it is possible (I know children who do this and it is workable) but, for me, would depend on what the third choice is like. And also quite how close you are to Clapham Junction!

In terms of time, it doesn't sound much worse than the bus journeys that many Y7s make. An hour door to door isn't that unusual once you've added in a walk at each end. There'll probably be plenty of other children doing the walk from the train station at Sutton, so that (plus time waiting for trains on the way home, and possibly the train journey itself) will soon count as 'social time' rather than 'journey time' .

It's physically further than a bus journey of the same time though, but YouBrokeMyShoulder's Plan B sounds OK - tube is usually fine in the snow, as long as you can get to the nearest tube stop.

How do you feel about the third choice school? Is it a more local selective place? (for example).

A place at the grammar if you are not that pleased with your allocated school would be worth a lot of travel. As he gets older he will become very used to the different bus and train options to use if there is any interruption of train services. But in truth, it is very very rare that the train service stops completely and unexpectedly. Delays, yes, but that doesn't matter as long as he knows what to do. It is normal and usual for Yr 7 children to undertake journeys like this, and he will soon meet other children who do the same journey. You need to start supporting him to have some independence now, though. Do a bus journey with him and then let bim do it on his own. Then do the Sutton route with him a few times on the holidays, let him have a practice run on his own etc.

I don't know why youbrokemysmoulder needs to giggle about a school coach service. Lots of schools with a wide catchment have a private coach service available - the coach companies offer it as a commercial business and the parents pay the costs.

What does he want to do about the offer?

Well done him for getting a place, anyway.

Because CalmingMiranda it would absolutely stoke the fury of locals to actually be able to see in bus terms just how many out of borough children there are - people are already, rightly or wrongly quite furious about it.

Its the use of the word 'catchment' in your response that tells its own story - they don't have one (if you can get there and get in then you can go) so its just bussing children from all over London - how would that work?

So locals already know! Presuably the station platforms tell the same story. If there wasn't such good train travel the coaches probably would offer a service.

I sympathise with the 'no catchment' thing, by the way, but that isn't the fault of the people who apply. And look at it this way - it dilutes the local effect of removing all the top achieving kids from the local comps.

Dulwich college for boys doesn't have catchment area but still operates an excellent coach service. Yes, it's private but I am prepared to pay if this was an offer for the grammar schools, at least for the first year when the boyse are transitioning. I am actually suprirised that schools accepting out of catchment children don't provide this service, but private do?

It is because it would be seen as encouraging out of borough children - at the moment the distance is used as a gentle reminder that you can apply from anywhere but the children have to be able to physically get there of a morning.

And where would you run them from? Clapham? Kingston? Croydon? Merton? All places with good public transport links to Sutton.

Private do because lots of the dc are out of borough as people choose the schools on the relevance to their child and not distance.

And don't the Dulwich College buses serve all the foundation schools - so not quite the same situation.

Kingsdale, a state school with no catchment, runs buses and in rural areas there are plenty of school buses serving state schools. I think that is a red herring.

OP, I can understand how if you live in Clapham you applied to Sutton and worried about the journey later - it is not as though it is easy to fill those six spaces.

I agree with others that it is doable, but think there may be a price in terms of doing things after school (leaving at 5, getting home at half six because you just missed the train, eating, starting work at 7, little break, finishing at 9, repeat.repeat.) I would do the journey for real at school times and time it accurately - and on the way back, just turn up at the station because the time he leaves school will vary a bit (depending on what he has lost or forgotten!). If you can wait to decide till schools open, and take a day off and do at least the morning one then, that would be even better.

I would look at hard at your third choice if that is closer, but if Sutton is head and shoulders a better fit for him, then go for it. I know people in your neck of the woods who turned down places that meant journeys like these when it came to it - so you don't see their kids at the station. So I don't think everyone considers it perfectly normal. It depends what your other options are.

Whichever school he goes to, now is the time to start letting him have some independence. If you start now, you can do it gradually and wherever he goes and wherever his friends live, he will be in a better position to cope.

YouBroke - the schools are not obliged to run their admissions as they do. The governors as the admissions authority could change and have a distance criteria. Graveney, for example, have made changes to their admissions rules over the last few years. So obviously it suits them - for reputation or fundraising or whatever, to keep the admission criteria they have. Frustrating though it must be for local people. So I'm not sure why they would then make a strategic decision not to run buses in order to undermine that criteria.

Aren't buses are a commercial operation run by the private bus companies, not a school provided service, per se?

ClaphamMum - however, I'm not sure any school takes responsibility for transport to and from - it is your chice, your decision as to whether the transport available makes it possible or not. I did not put our high achieveing DC in for the 11+ because the transport would be onerous.

However, may children would and do do the journey your DS would make. But only you can decide. What would be the school he would go to if you do not accept this place? Would you be forever wondering 'what if' if you turn down this fabulous opportunity? When he is approaching GCSE and out and about on trains all the time, will you be thinking 'why was I so nervoud about this?'?

Why doesn't he walk to school on his own at the moment?

It all comes down to the alternatives. From clapham junction, st ceciilia's, battersea park and Ashcroft are easier, but after that most schools will take 45 mins plus (eg Graveney by bus is at least that). Kids leave for school between 7 and 7.30 all over Wandsworth, heading every which way, hopefully to schools that suit them. From the outside it looks a bit mad, but they all seem content and do manage to take part in matches, plays etc. Tbh the journey to Sutton will be easier than many, and trains are regular - I commute that way and it's a really easy journey, and is quicker by train than car (or coach).

I would check the school starting and finishing times against the 20 - 24 minute rail jouneys to see how that works. I doubt if a coach through London morning traffic would get there as quickly, even with the walk the other end. I would also factor in the walk from your home to Clapham Junction. There will be a lot of children walking from Sutton station to the school. I agree with other posters to try out the journey at the time your DS will be travelling, to see how it works out.

How long do you have to decide? I would make a list of advantages and disadvantages of Sutton against the 3rd choice school and see if that helps. I also think your son should be getting primary school himself next term.

Sometimes the public bus companies run a special schools service - there's a timetabled bus which scoots round West Norwood, Brixton & Clapham twice a day picking up girls who go to Burntwood School in Wandsworth. I don't know if ordinary members of the public can hop on or not (suppose fairly unlikely that they'd even want to), or what incentive the bus company has to run the service, since children travel for free.

Train to Sutton would be a much pleasanter & less tiring journey than any bus or coach though.

My mum went to Tiffin Girls. A long time ago, obviously. She lived in Walton. I was passing Tiffin recently and when I realised where it is (sort of not really Kingston, not really Ham) I commented how long it must have taken her to get to school. She said no, she used to spend 20 mins on the train to Surbiton and then 20 mins on bus. To me, that sounds amazing for an 11 year old, but apparently they all do it, and I guess it can be great for camaraderie.

A grammar school place is a gift if private isn't an option. If private is an option, and you can do the ferrying around, then why not take that? But given the choice between a state and a selective state school, I would go for the latter. Well done your boy for winning the place!

ClaphamMum1 hope you've managed to trial the journey and see how feasible it is....have you decided yet?

No I haven't trialed the journey but I have trialed Wilson's and I imagine this is much easier so all good. Thanks for all your advise you all have been amazing.

Good luck and maybe our DSs will cross paths at Sutton ;-)