Appeal for preferred secondary school and ds is first on waiting list....

[jus3351]

I'm looking to hear from anyone who's had any previous experience in school appeals and wondered if anyone knows when the first allocation from school waiting lists begin. We didn't get our preferred choice of school and have been allocated a school we hadn't even looked at as it has just come out of special measures. We are Catholic and our preferred choice was a heavily over subscribed Catholic school, they have confirmed we are 1st on waiting list and missed the home to school distance cut-off point by 1.85 metres this year. If it was based on the previous 5 years, we would have got a place. Also my son is colour blind and wishes to cycle to school, although he has a lot of trouble distinguishing the traffic signal colours and our preferred choice had a journey that would have avoided all traffic signals enabling him to cycle safely to school. He has a colour vision report which is up to date and from a doctor stating his red/green colour deficiency. He has a letter from his headteacher supporting the fact that he shows particular ability in maths as this is also a maths specialist school. The school we have been allocated is a specialist art school and because of ds's colour deficiency is his least favourite subject.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated as cannot sleep and feel so sick each day, appeal should be early May so still lots of waiting.

You have to prove to the appeals panel that your need for a place in your preferred school is more than their need to keep their numbers down. I'm assuming this is secondary school seeing as how he already has a head teacher?

The report from the doc will help, does he have any other support workers who could also right letters in your support?

I'd be very surprised if he didn't get a place from the waiting list as he's at the top of it even if you don't win the appeal. There are always people who move or change their minds at the last minute or have secured private school places but not bothered to tell the council.

Also - print out a map of the two journeys he would make for each school, marking all the signals on the journey to his allocated place. I had a friend who won her appeal on the back of the fact that her journey to allocated school would involve her getting snarled up in a nightmare one way system which would mean that she had no chance of getting to work on time (single parent, no-one else available to take the child to school each day). She illustrated this by taking maps and talking the panel through it.

Yes this is for a secondary school place. We contacted the 'colour blind awareness organisation' for advice and they were able to have some photos simulated for us, the photos were of one set of traffic signals that our son would travel through to allocated school. We did 3 photos, red light/red and amber/ and green, the photos were then simulated to our son's colour deficiency (protanopia) to help panel understand the difficulties he would face.

Our parish priest did a letter for us confirming that we attend mass each week, the headteacher wrote a letter supporting our appeal and some of the parents have also written letters of support as their sons have a place at this school and are they are all friends.

We've also photographed the routes of the allocated school and the preferred school to demonstrate how easy vs difficult the journey would be if our son cycles. we've also included lots of info on how the Government and councils together with TFL are currently encouraging school children to cycle to and from school. The primary school my son currently attends offered 'Bikeabilty' proficiency courses and the most recent course took them out onto quiet roads in preparation for cycling to secondary school if they wish.

Other than that, we don't have any other letters from support workers.

I think you'll be just fine, you seem very well sorted for a successful result. Our appeals have two parts. Firstly the panel hears the school's side and will almost always support their argument, then they listen to your argument and make a decision based on that. We won ours.

Thank you, just to hear a positive and unbiased response has made me feel better. I didn't realise how ill this could make you feel!! I seemed to have done nothing but worked on this appeal for the past month, I keep waking up in the middle of the night thinking about it and then can't get back to sleep. I'll just be so relieved when it's all over - whatever the result.

I think you will have to be careful about the journey to school.

Firstly, because unless it is over the regulation length (in which case free transport should be provided), then convenience of journey is not a factor. Also secondly, as colourblindness is not a condition that requires notification to DVLA for drivers then it it harder to make a case based on it and road safety at all.

The maths issues sound more promising.

Even though colour blindness isn't a condition that requires notification to DVLA for drivers, I thought for a child travelling to school, it should be a consideration that should be taken into account although I'm not holding out much hope of winning an appeal on this. If he ends up at the allocated school he'll just have to take the bus as there are six sets of traffic signals to cycle through and we wouldn't allow him to do this. The route is down a very busy high street which gets very congested too. It's not the end of the world, he just really wanted to be independent and cycle and we wanted to try and support his wish if we could. Thank you for your advice, I appreciate it.

Allocations from the waiting list should happen as soon as a place becomes available. There is no formal schedule.

The colour blindness/journey issue is worth a try but I doubt it will win your appeal. And I wouldn't mention the art issue (or at best I would only mention it in passing) as it isn't really relevant - the panel are looking for arguments in favour of the appeal school, not arguments against the allocated school. As EdithWeston says, the maths issues sound like your strongest point.

Thanks for all your helpful comments. It's a great help to weigh all the comments up and see things from other people's point of view.

SchoolsNightmare - our son is able to work out the sequence of the traffic light signals, however in bright sunlight or fog for instance, he can't actually see if there is any light extinguished at all. I was driving him to school last week and we had a bit of fog, as we were approaching the traffic signals, I asked him if he could tell me what colour was showing and he said he couldn't see a thing. The same thing happens when it's sunny, he finds it difficult to see any light at all. Not only did we want him to go to a Catholic school as it would continue to support his faith but the journey to this school would have avoided traffic signals completely and he has two friends also going here and their parents have written support letters saying they had hoped the three boys would have travelled to school together. With regard to the allocated school, the only negative thing I have said in my statement is that it's an art specialist school and it's his least favourite subject, maybe in hindsight I shouldn't have said that at all but too late now as have already handed the statement in as deadline was last Friday! I have been very positive about the school to my son and have highlighted all the good things about it. It doesn't sound like I have much hope at all other than the fact that our preferred school is a maths specialist school. If that's the only thing that may convince the panel then I'll just have to hope and pray!! Wishing you the best of luck with your appeal. It's nerve racking to say the least...

SchoolsNightmare - Yes you're right, I should be able to submit further evidence/documents - under the new appeals code which came into effect from Feb this year, it could be as close as 5 days before the actual appeal hearing.

My son has received excellent pastoral care at his primary school, the school work closely with the parish church and there are regular school masses, ideally we would like this to continue for him in his secondary school, however realise many other children/families are in a similar situation to us although as far as I know all of the children in my son's year were given one of their choices and have now happily accepted those places.

Our allocated school which is one of the worst performing schools in the area were very helpful when I called to discuss my son's colour blindness, I was concerned that the whole school is colour coded and the children are given a map to colour in when they first start, this colour coded map then helps them to match up the colours of the corridors according to each subject classroom. I thought this would be a nightmare for my son as when we looked around everything was in different pastel colours and when we left after the visit he said he felt ill and had a tummy ache and I know he was worrying about how he'd cope with that on his first day. I dropped him off to school and then called them soon as I got home to ask how they could help him with this, they said someone would help him for the first 2 weeks and he'll get to know his way around by then (it's a very big school).

I had very naively assumed he would have got our preferred choice as he fitted the faith criteria and in past years would have gained a place. Apparently this year was particularly bad, so we were unlucky being just 5 feet away from the cut off distance, urghhhhhh!

I don't think I can do any more than previously mentioned and my husband has volunteered to present the case to the panel which is a huge relief. Don't think I'd have any problem presenting the case to begin with but quite sure I'd fall apart at the summing up!

I have nothing helpful to add to your appeal case. I just wanted to say good luck. DS1 was 28th on the waiting list for our preferred secondary, and he was offered a place 3 days before the appeal. Obviously not something to rely on but there is always hope!

RLP - what a nice surprise for you, bet you didn't imagine getting a place being 28th on the list! Yes, there is always hope, thank you and glad you got your place.

Just posting to wish you well. i'm not an expert, but I read up a lot on this two years ago when appealing for our DS's place at a local faith school. All I've heard advice wise is to stick to the why you want the school you're appealing for, not the one you don't want. The advice you got that the maths is the strongest argument sounds sensible. The colour-blindness on its own wouldn't in my opinion count, but sounds like a strong additional argument (and good for your son in wanting to cycle and be independent - that may be something some panel members like to hear about). I wouldn't worry about having mentioned the art in the other school in your letter of appeal. Just don't bother to mention it in your case presentation on the day.

BTW: We got offered a place (having been 56th on the waiting list) just before I posted off the appeal (had to ring the school for the address to send the appeal to and they said "hang on, we were just about to phone you!"). The massive move up is/was because a lot of local parents use the state school as a fall-back when they're trying for private. Fair enough, but so nerve-wracking!

I'll be watching this space. Good luck!

It sounds like you know what you are doing, but I would try and find some evidence relating to why your ds needs to be at this school based on the Maths specialism. Your reasons for wanting a place based on tense journey sound good to me, but I would have thought an appeal panel would want to hear more about the benefits that will be available during school time too.

That said, you probably have a very good chance of getting a place from the waiting list. First is a good place to be this early in the year.

reshetima and Outragedatthepriceoffreddos - thanks for your advice.

Students with good maths ability are able to take FSMQ Mathematics in Year 11 at preferred school, will phone allocated school after Easter and check if they offer the same, if they can't then at least it'll add strength to that point/reason but if they can it'll blow that point right out the window.

Have just spoken to local authority and they have confirmed ds is still first on the waiting list although none of the places offered have been declined and all places have been filled, unless of course someone moves from now until Sept? I would like to think his chances were good but local authority quite rightly said 'who's to say if someone is going to move, nobody knows the answer to that'.

Trying to stay positive but local authority also said that appeals they would really expect to get upheld just don't, and for no explicable reason....felt deflated after talking to them.

Do not be deflated, the comments by the LA are not very helpful at all and every panel makes decisions for sound logic reasons. The whole point of having a clerk there is to make sure the panel does not make completely illogical, unlawful decisions.
I am not saying that different panels will always make the same decisions, that is not going to happen because each panel and each individual member of the panel can put a different weight on evidence heard and come to different conclusions. But in the majority of cases different panels will come to the same conclusions, especially where the evidence is either weak or strong.

admission/schoolsnightmare - thank you for your support! Earlier I spoke with a parent who has a son in sixth form at the allocated school, I asked if she was aware of the school offering the FSMQ exam and as far as she knows they don't, maths is her son's favourite subject and she said he would have taken this in Year 11 had it been available. I know I would never win an appeal on this point but it would help if I can prove allocated school cannot offer my ds opportunity to take this exam whilst preferred school can. Preferred school also has it's own Chapel within the school itself, something allocated school doesn't as not Catholic. So, I may add that point too......Feel like I'm literally clutching at straws here!!

There aren't really many independent schools in our area at all so not sure about parents having two places they may be considering. We are in an area that is surrounded by excellent grammar schools. Unfortunately ds missed the pass mark by a couple of points. I only know of one child in the whole of ds's primary school that went on to an independent school. Will post any new developments!

I am looking for advice and help from anybody who has experience with secondary school admission appeals.I would appreciate any advice in particular any questions the panel are likely to ask.I have 4 children and my youngest DD was refused a place on the basis of too many applications for spaces, i also work within the school.Basically i know i need to explain why my dd would benefit from being educated there and not to mention or put down her offered place.Is there anyone out there who can give a very upset mum and help please? Thank you

Dear prh47bridge/admission,

Wondered if you could please offer any advice on this new development: When I had originally applied for sec school place back in Oct 2011, I included a letter and a colour vision report from Institute of Optometry confirming son's colour blindness. This is relevant as he wishes to cycle to school and will always have difficulty with traffic signals, the preferred school has an extremely safe route. We had received a letter back from authority stating that a medical/social admissions panel had met in Dec to decide whether this application and evidence warranted priority over children being offered a place within the home to school distance criteria. They decided it didn't.

I e-mailed the authority yesterday to ask how the panel were able to make their decision and they replied saying the letter had been sent in error, our evidence and original letter had been sent directly to our preferred school which is voluntary aided and have their own admissions authority. The authority say they should have only sent out that letter to me if I'd applied to a community school. It also went on to say that

'Any professional panel would not be able to judge if an assessment made in June 2007 was still relevant'' (our son's report was from 2007 as his colour blindness will not ever change so thought this would be fine). We have an up-to-date report from March 2012 from London City University which we have included with our appeal papers

It goes on to apologise that we were sent that letter. I'm really upset as not only was this letter a lie, i.e. a panel never met at all about this, and even if they had the authority have confirmed they wouldn't be able to judge if the report I'd submitted would still be relevant or not.

Allocated school have confirmed they cannot offer two exams which preferred school can and are very relevant to our son: FSMQ Maths and Junior Sports Leadership Award - will this help with the appeal??

Thank you for your time!

As the school is its own admissions authority it would be up to them to decide if your son qualified for the "special medical or social needs" category, assuming they have such a category in their admissions criteria. If there is no such category your evidence would not get any priority for your son. To be honest, even if there is such a category I would be surprised if they gave priority based on his colour blindness coupled with a desire to cycle to school.

The fact you received an incorrect letter from the LA is not of itself relevant. If you were complaining that a mistake had been made this would be useful evidence that all did not operate smoothly within admissions but it wouldn't prove that you have been disadvantaged.

The comment about the date of the assessment should not have been made. It is for the panel to decide whether or not the assessment is relevant, not the LA. As long as all the evidence was given to whatever panel made the decision that is all that matters. Of course, if you have evidence that the panel wasn't given all the evidence or ignored the assessment because of its age that would be another matter. You need to ask the school. Having said that, you would still need to show that your son should have been put in the special medical/social needs category if he had been assessed properly.

The exams offered by the preferred school are relevant although I doubt the panel will give much weight to the FSMQ Maths as that is intended to be a post-GCSE qualification. The sports award is more relevant as that appears to be for the correct age group.

Dear prh47bridge - thank you yet again for the sound advice and quick response!

The school Governors did take into account the medical evidence, although there is a sub-criteria for medical grounds, the Governors consider the evidence and make a decision at their discretion. It says the governing body will seek advice from medical or teaching professionals where appropriate - should I ask the school if they did seek any professional advice as I doubt they are qualified doctors with experience of colour blindness? What do you think?

Also, when I submit further evidence, I was going to include the FSMQ Maths because this school offer this to year 10 and 11 students, although the JSLA is offered from age 14 so I see why you say this is more relevant.