Do all LA Admission teams in London work in the same way?

[Prettyjen]

Hi everyone,

I have seen from some other posts that there may be some admissions staff on MN and I would like some clear info. The info I have had from my admissions team is a bit patchy and tends to be who you speak to on the day. I have spoken with three different members of staff to date, all very friendly and helpful but telling me different things. I dont want to complain as I dont want to get them offside during a difficult time for all.

My DD did not get any of her 6 choices and from the advice from PR something with numbers (I think 47) amongst others I have accepted the place offered and requested appeal forms and am about to start my appeal research having just stopped crying!

The schools concerned will not tell me where she is on the waiting lists and refer me to admissions.

1. Admissions firstly told me that this is just the first phase and there would be a second round of offers.
2. They then said second round of offers would happen on 22-23/03/12.
3. They have now said not until end of April and possibly up until end of July, which seems crazy when appeals are heard in June!
4. They have now said possibly not at all and it is not done in rounds!

I am really getting to the end of my patience. They will not give me any current info regarding where my DD is on waiting lists until end of April, However, I would like the info now to allow me to manage my expectations. Are they allowed to withhold this info from me?

i want to be able to take my daughter on holiday over Easter, knowing where we stand. I am also planning to sell my house and upsize later this year with my new partner so would like to start making plans that may have to take into account school catchment areas for year 8 and feel unable to move forwards.

Help and advice needed please?????

OP very sorry to hear of your dilemma. I am not an admissions person but having been through the process of school admission twice and as a member of the school appeals panel, I appreciate what you have to go through. I think they don't want to give you the information because they have not processed all the acceptances yet and are unlikely to do so in the next few weeks. Then it is a fairly slow process of offering and reoffering the places until they are filled. July is not an unreasonable estimate unfortunately. Which borough are you in?

Thanks kensingtonia, Im in Barnet.

Yet, I have friends who are in Islington who were told straight away where they were on the waiting lists and by Camden schools as well.

I just dont understand why I cant be given the in formation with the caveat of things changing hourly/daily but this is how it is at this point in time. Its something I have to do in my job all the time.....

At least if I knew I was 5 or 500 on the list for each it will give me something to work with.

I'm in a neighbouring borough to Barnet, and our waiting list position are released next week and offers are done on a fortnightly basis after that. Would be v surprised to hear Barnet not offering until July, that doesn't sound likely. I know they have a "front office" (call centre) set up taking their calls, and then a "back office" (admissions staff) that deal with things the call centre can't answer- do you know if the staff you have spoken to are front or back office?

Are the schools you are applying for Community schools or Academy/ VA Schools?

I suspect its a front office/ back office split from whats been said. i dont know what area the staff were from that I spoke to.

Four were selective and she didnt do well enough in the test. The other two have just become Academies last year.

I also asked if they can put us on the waiting lists for other schoold I didnt apply for whether academies or or Community schools and they havent responded.

I work for an East London Council albeit not in Education and I amfinding this so difficult.

Lovebox, do you think that they will be able to give me info next Friday?

PR something with numbers here!

There are differences between LAs but there are certain things that should be consistent.

Some LAs operate a formal second round of offers once they've got the initial acceptances and refusals. Some don't. Given that offers only went out on 1st March, having the second round on 22nd/23rd seems a trifle ambitious.

Strictly speaking it shouldn't be done in rounds. Vacancies should be filled from the waiting list as they come up. However, admission departments are very busy at this time of year as kensingtonia says, so having a second round can be a sensible way of doing things provided they don't delay too long.

Once they've established the waiting list they should be able to tell where you are on it. However, with everything in flux at the moment sorting out waiting list positions will be a low priority. And if the front office staff are under pressure to deal with calls their priority is to get you off the line as quickly as possible regardless of whether or not they've actually dealt with your query. Not helpful I know but unfortunately that is the way it often works.

You can go on the waiting list for any school you want. However, some LAs limit the number of waiting lists you can be on.

Don't forget you will get good advice to help you prepare your appeal here.

I do have sympathy with you in terms of the waiting and the not knowing what is happening. However this is a mega issue for any Local Authority and they simply have to work through the process in a logical and sensible fashion. They should be dealing with vacant places as soon as possible.
The way that appeals are organised is dependent on the rules around admission appeals. In essence secondary school appeals tend to be done before primary because the allocation date is earlier. You have to take into consideration that a n over-subscribed secondary school, especially in london, can easily have 100+ appellants and that means more than a week's worth of appeals for one panel. My LA has set up dates for all those schools they expect appeals for and they run through till August and on many days they have three separate appeals running.

So please bear with the LA but I do understand the frustration, I've been there myself.

In London they have a week to log all the acceptances, and at the beginning of next week all the LEAs will start sharing and putting together the information about who has accepted which places. So once they have completed that process there should be more clarity about waiting lists and available places.

Once places start to be re-allocated it presumably goes on for months, churning and churning, because each place offered and accepted to will usually make another place available, which is offered to someone thus freeing up another place somewhere else...

Thank you all. MN is pretty much keeping me sane at the moment!

I go abroad on 30th, so will give one last final call before then- just in case and let them know Im away in case a miracle happens.

I co-manage a busy department with roughly up to 46,000 customers at any one time or all chopping and changing on a massive database, with different deadlines and response times etc. i| also manage a busy appeals and complaints department for the same customer base as well and this is why, I cannot understand such an undefined process with little management of customer expectations.

It really is a poor situation and one that I would have liked to have thought that could be re-defined for the better, even after the next years changes.

I don't have a problem with any rant SchoolNightmare, I share your frustration with the system. and yes Prettyjen, customers and customer satisfaction seem a very alien concept to most LAs

I can't speak for what London Boroughs do but my LA tends not to contact by phone at this time of the year. It is so hectic and mistakes can get made so they tend to only correspond by email or letter when it comes to either offering or declining a place. There have been a few mistakes made where the wrong people were told the wrong thing and it is not only embarrassing but also costly as you usually end having to admit pupils that should never have been offered a place.

Hi PrettyJen we are in Barnet too, in same boat as you. We visited the school that was our first choice ( a New academy) & they were able to tell us where we are on The waiting list. We phoned The LA before Easter & they said that all the info was being collated on computer and letters would be going out for 'second round' places this week. They said if no letter came then we should ring again this week to see where we are on the list. They said they would be able to tell me exactly what number we are. The appeal for us is on a date in May, so we have lodged that & Will be Doing Plenty of research before then to present our case in the best light. I know of many people who put 6 schools down & didn't get any, in which case there is a list of 4 schools in Barnet that aren't full so you can apply for any of those. Did someone else on the thread say you can go on the waiting list at any school? I didn't realise that, I thought you could only appeal / go back to any of the schools which were above the one that you were allocated from your original application. I think with it all being done on a computer there must be room for error. Some people registered online / accepted / declined online. If yours was a paper application you are at the behest of someone opening your letter and manually typing in the info which must take longer & put you at a disadvantage. Good luck with it all, I know how you feel. Apologies for poor grammar, my iPhone keeps putting capital letters in etc!

The admission code would certainly suggest that you can apply for a place and go on the waiting list of any school you want. Where LAs are saying there is a limit, I suspect that they are correct, there is a limit but it is an artificial limit imposed by the software rather than a limit that is legal. How you get around that limit is something I don't really have an answer for.