Help daughter suspended for facebook post!

[vinnygal]

Hi everyone, I would really appreciate any advise you can give me. My daughter is in Upper 6th about to sit her A levels. I have visited the school on countless occasions over the last year, as have other parents, over the quality of teaching from the Sociology department. The class set a resit exam in January and the got their results a few weeks ago with everyone getting an E grade! In my daughters frustration she took a photo of the school mission statement, the first line being along the lines that they aim to provide a first class education, and posted it on her facebook profile with the caption ' First class my a**' The school found out about this post and have threatened her with the police for libel and have suspended her for 5 days. In the letter I have received it states 'your daughter posted a very derogatory and defamatory picture and comment on facebook about the school. This behaviour is unacceptable and it is for this reason she is being suspended'

I will be phoning the head tomorrow and was wondering what help or advise you could give me. I know she has been foolish but I do think the school have been a bit harsh in their punishment. She was made remove the post and replace it with an apology where she admitted to being childish and immature. I can not see how this post amounts to libel or is as the school pointed out, a criminal offence!

Thanks in advance :)

admission
are you sure about comments on facebook
just that somebody has set up a "we hate && school" FB page that seems to atrract rather ranty posts on Fridays.
THey all seem to be deleted by monday
steam duly let off
nobody hurt
kids now use FB like we would a private phone call

Thank you everyone for your comments. To answer a few points that have been raised:
DD has never been in trouble or had to be disciplined by the school previous to this.
DD did not tell me everyone in the class got an E to save face, I know for a fact that they all did - this was confirmed by the head of department.
This is not a low ability group - this is a class whereby in the other subjects they are all sitting on A grades
Unfortunately it is not possible to move schools at this point as its too close to exam time and she wouldnt get into another school at this stage anyway.
When I contacted the school this afternoon to ask for a copy of the suspension policy and what their appeal procedure was I was told I would get access to it when my DD returned to school (neither is published on school website)!!!!
I will let you all know how I get on with the head tomorrow, I am not hopeful of getting the suspension quashed and I do feel that DD may have been foolish but the school has been heavy handed and to be quite honest used bully tactics. They have not addressed the root of the problem.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

they CANNOT refuse to give you a copy of a policy that has been used for a suspension.
Make sure you ask to see the date it was approved by the governors
and ask to see the minutes of that meeting to check

And remind them of THIS news story www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17404382
Its not a suspension - its an exclusion.
It NEEDS to comply with rules

In defamation law, it does not necessarily matter whether the statement is true or not (although the truth or otherwise of the statement can be used as a defence). It can merely be judged on whether or not the statement will cause damage in the eyes of 'right thinking members of society'.

As far as your daughter is concerned I wouldn't give the school's comments about it being libel a moment's consideration - they are just bandying words about to worry you.

Even if they did decide to go down that road (which they won't - it would cost too much and further embarrass them), I would imagine the following would apply:

If the offending statement can be proven to be an expression of opinion on a matter of public interest, and not to be considered factual, the statement may be considered fair comment which can be used a defence.

Probably wasn't the wisest thing your DD could have done, but if I'm honest I have a sneaking admiration for her for actually doing something (albeit somewhat foolish). If the internet was around when I was a school I probably would have been in her shoes a few times!

If your DD is in Y13 then does anything on her school record actually matter? Has she applied through UCAS this year or is she deferring university or is she taking some other route altogether?

The teaching in the Sociology department sounds abysmal.

I'm more shocked though by the school's empty threats to go to the police.

Is it a private school OP?

Either way, I think the HT owes an apology.

Where on earth has free speech gone? We were free to complain about school authorities marching with placards around the school, and she puts a comment in Facebook and the school involves the police for libel??

FGS! this comment should have been taken as what it is, a personal complaint about the school, the same as she had expressed her opinion in a pub or while playing with other children.

If the school is dealing in such way with 'customer complaints', gosh... your girl may not be protected by law but using libel regulations to this level reminds me of the worst dictatorships we have experienced in the last 50 years...

Are you entirely sure it is the school at fault, and not dodgy examiners? As a teacher (and an examiner) I have been on both sides of the fence and sometimes you just get low marks, and there's sod all you can do about it.

A few years back, my classes got low grades in their coursework module - all low grades from otherwise good students. By your reasoning, it would make me a poor teacher, but I simply resubmitted the exact same coursework the following year - students did not change a single word - and all the resubmitted essays went up in their marks. One student's essay went up by 20 marks! Poor teaching or dodgy examining...?

Other posters really can't just assume poor teaching, these days it's a bloody minefield out there!

vinnygal I have experience of having a DC suspended for facebook activity, as well as several meetings with heads, etc. that were unpleasant in that I had to listen to things about my child that I wished were not true.

ime, one thing that undermines them slightly when they are trying to tell you how bad your DC is, is if you can tell them how much you like the school in general, how happy your DC is to be there, how much they have learned, etc.

In your case, are there some subjects where your DD is doing well? If so, maybe you could start off with complimenting the school regarding the other subjects.

It will be useful to you if you can be concilatory and apologetic (ie, DD was foolish, shouldn't have done that, etc.) regarding what DD did.

You can also be demanding regarding seeing the policies on suspension, etc.

You could at some point mention that you are " "surprised" that DD got an "E" for sociology, which she likes" (if that is true). What is the school doing to support the sociology teacher who got "Es" for the whole class?

Sociology must be a really hard subject to know what is expected in the exam - if the teacher has a different view to the examiner, this could be a difference of two grades.

Final tip: can you take a friend/parent/DP with you? I once had a four-on-one, and it took some time for me to recover.

In any case, DD will be out of that school within a few months, and your objective in the discussion tomorrow is to minimise the disruption to her and to maximise the chances of her doing well overall.

You've already had so much good advice i'm not sure i can add much, but wanted to say i think it sounds like your daughter is well educated and bright and i rather admire her 'pluck! And also agree that the school have been heavy handed, but often are when criticised and sadly more likely to be so, if it hits a nerve.

I do agree that the school should give you a copy of the relevant policies which they are suspending her on, and as said above copies of the minutes at which govs meeting they were approved. I'm not sure if you know the chair of governers, but if you have already been refused this i would attempt to contact them before you see the head this morning.

I would also not hesitate in contacting the local education authority, things have probably changed since i taught with changes in govement etc, but i suspect that they will at least be able to provide some clarity, and ime when i contacted them as a new teacher about something relatively minor, it soongot back to the school who then hopped about quite a bit to rectify the problem (providing support for newly qualified teachers).

Very shocked at denial of suspension policy.

"Hah- look at the comments made all over MN about various hospitals, schools, council services - should all those posters be subject to a criminal prosecution?" absolutely not, and as I said above (somewhere) the police wouldn't be interested anyway. But equally look at the numbers of posts on mn that are deleted based on mn's fear of lawsuit. posts about gina ford/the Mccanns/other celebrities suh as, most of which are based on opinion and yet which carry a risk of legal reprisal.

I just think that we live in an age atm where the real impact of putting one's personal opinions in such a public place such as facebook etc is still little understood, predominantly because this technology has pretty much been unleashed in such a short space of time, and that we all often need to think about what we're saying, and where, and who might be able to read it - now or in the future. iyswim.

WRT the school refusing you a copy of the suspension policy, they are not allowed to do this So what I would do is say that you require a copy of the policy immediately - as you know is your right as a parent - also a copy of the governing body minutes where this policy was agreed - something which you also know are legally publically available. I would also tell them that you are fully aware that this is not a criminal matter and that you therefore do not intend to pay any heed to their threats to go to the police.

I still stand by what I said about her being silly to put comments on facebook, but it does sound as if the school isn't handling it at all well.

Agree with admission.

A few of the posters on this thread clearly don't understand libel law so a brief explanation.

Libel is purely a civil matter. The offence of criminal libel was abolished recently. The police would not get involved in this (and to be honest they wouldn't even if criminal libel still existed - this is far too trivial).

Some people have said the school would have to prove the comment is untrue. That is not the case but nor is it the case that the burden of proof is reversed as the press would have you believe. Any civil case is decided on the balance of probabilities, unlike criminal cases where the burden of proof is on the prosecution. If the school chose to prosecute they would have to show that the comment was posted by the OP's daughter, that it refers to the school and that it would damage the school's reputation. The daughter could argue that her comment was justified, in which case she would have to show that it was true. However, I think the defence of fair comment would be appropriate. Note that the defence of fair comment cannot be used if, for example, you make specific factual allegations such as the type of comment sometimes made concerning the McCanns.

I would be amazed if the school managed to win a libel case based on this Facebook comment. Threatening to get the police involved is entirely inappropriate.

Some schools are more protective of their reputation than others. Some ignore pretty much anything their students post about the school on Facebook, others get very worked up about it. I think the latter group are wrong but they are within their rights to do so.

Assuming this is a state school or academy you can make a Freedom of Information request for their suspension policy (and pretty much any other information you want as long as it is not personal data) and they must provide it.

How about a school being protective of its reputation by implementing good teaching and dealing openly with problems, rather than by trying to repress comment in police-state fashion?

This sounds like appalling mis-management on the part of the school. I am not a teacher, or a lawyer, but I would have called all the parents of the pupils in the under-performing sociology class in to a meeting, told them that I was employing a top-flight supply teacher for the rest of the year, putting on remedial revision classes after school, and having all papers remarked and resat at the school's cost.

It's a real pity you will only make your daughter's situation worse by naming and shaming. Is it otherwise a good school? Are the senior management team on the ball or weak and ineffectual? TBH it sounds like the latter.

I'm being flippant but could you ask the school for the recent exam results which demonstrate that they do indeed provide a "first class" education?

where does the school come in league tables?

if they cannot demonstrate this then perhaps you could suggest their motto is misleading and you will be consulting your rights under the trade descriptions act??!

I'm not being serious and don't recommend you do this, but though your daughter has perhaps been a bit foolish, the school's reaction is a bit draconian.

Or you could really fan the flames... Com

Or you could really fan the flames... Contact your local newspaper and get them to turn it into a news story about how badly your dd has been treated by the school and that the nasty school is failing in not even letting you see the policies (pointless to have to appeal after having done the exclusion as it can never be undone, even if they then take it off her record - she has still missed the school) and the problems they have been having with the teaching of sociology.

Of course make sure your dd is contrite and apologetic for doing something silly but but make sure that it comes over that she (and fellow students) are otherwise A students who have been asking for better teaching and support repeatedly and not got it. And that this frustration led your dd to do this silly thing that she thought was private and just between her friends as a way of creatively letting off steam.

That way the school will get lots and lots of exposure for their silly treatment of your dd and their sloppy teaching plus their inaction in dealing with the issue.

So long as you are the one that initiates contact with the paper - your dd is not bringing the school into disrepute (you are?!). They will then see that their actions have turned a minor molehill into a mountain in terms of bringing it to a wider audience. Your dd will have an interesting educational experience talking to the journalist and watching the whole thing play out. And then she can turn it all into a nice project for her sociology course...

Or maybe when you talk to the school and point this all out to them, they will be much more agreeable to reviewing their ott reaction to your dd's post... :o

I think the OP needs to be very clear as to what would count as a good outcome for her daughter.

I also agree that the schools response has both been very disproportionate and worrying as it suggests that it is not a good environment and best got out of as soon as possible.

Also the issuing of legally meaningless threats does not impress me (as has been said before the police have no role, no criminal offence, and a suit for defamation would be insane and no board of Governors with any sense would authorise the expenditure, as they would be suing someone with no assets and so could neither recover damages nor costs, even if - a big if - they won. Its the advice any lawyer would give them - for a fee...)

Let the head know you will be going to the local papers if they don't see reason and withdraw the suspension.

Although I understand the sentiment, good luck with finding a top notch sociology supply teacher...

"I think it is vile that we are now living in such a closely monitored state that a 16 year old can't say something negative about an institution without serious consequences."

Facebook is in the public domain. It's not the same as having a whinge with your best mate.

I agree that Facebook is going to come back and bite more and more people in the bum as time goes on.

Steady - she's got her A Levels to sit and the school haven't acted proportionately so far... You can't guarantee the coverage would be sympathetic either...

So the teacher is ill, not incompetent - what do you expect the school to do? They have provided cover and allowed resits, what else can they do?

Everyone got an E - well at least no one got a U, or is it not true that EVERYONE got an E? What were the predicted grades?

She has commited libel - fortunately that is a civil not a criminal matter so the police will not get involved

Fair comment is indeed a defence to libel.

And you could make your DD notorious/famous locally by splurging her all over the press.

But she does need to know that posting on the Internet counts as publication and that libel laws apply.

Frankly, I wouldn't make a fuss over a punishment for such a puerile comment, and I would hope she learns from it.

I think the school was well over the top. Obviously it's true. I think the friend should get told of for being a sneak.

I am sorry that the school seems to be failing your daughter educationally. However, they do have grounds to object to her comment on a public internet forum such as Facebook.

I would not worry about any threats of going to the police re the libel. Defamation is a civil matter, not a criminal one, and the police will not be interested. As to the school taking any action regarding the comment, if they wanted to make a libel claim then they first thing they would have to consider is whether your daughter would be able to meet any award of damages they might win, which as she is still a child is highly unlikely! So I doubt very much that anything worse than her being suspended will happen.

If she is contrite and apologises I would hope the suspension would be lifted.