Poor AS grades, yet intelligent son

[MissLivvy]

Hi Everyone, new to Mumsnet so hope I'm doing this right. Would appreciate advice re my DS who is 18, y13 in 6th form of academic state school. Did ok at GCSE, not fab grades but put that down to not enough work. But real problem has been AS/A2 levels, terrible grades (Cs Es Us). This despite good school reports and no prediction of such by any teacher in any subject. He is intelligent, articulate, sporty, and an all-round beautiful human being (goodness I know this is sounding like a delusional mother), but on his classroom performance, his written exam results in no way correlate with his abilities. Am thinking there is some undiagnosed prob, have booked app with Ed psy as starting point(?)as his exam failures are really getting him down. We know his intelligence is not in doubt, his younger sister is applying to Oxbridge and she's no cleverer but does well in exams. At a loss as to where from here. Need to help but just don't know what needs to be done, help please.

Hi. I used to be a FE teacher so am well aware of this phenomenon. It's not uncommon for (in my experience mainly boys) to do reasonably well in GCSEs then bomb out completely at AS level.

GCSES are a completely different proposition to A levels. You can do reasonably well in them if you have a good memory. They don't require a huge amount in analytic reasoning other than figuring out what the question is asking. If your son got by on very little actual study and a good recall then the requirement to actually think and apply knowledge may come as a bit of a shock.

A level coursework requires some analytical thinking, but, because it is done over a long period with some teacher guidance, it can be easier for some students to gain good grades. The problem comes in exams when suddenly they have to apply knowledge and extrapolate from what they have learned.

You will need to concentrate on exam technique for a start. Teaching your son to write a good essay plan is a good way to start. He doesn't have to write the essay, just know how to plot out an argument with examples and with a logical structure. And he needs to know how to do this with speed at the beginning of an exam. Get old exam papers and practise with them. Students who get good exam grades do this. They also tend to have readable handwriting and have obviously read more than just the textbook or set texts and can use examples. They also know how much short answer questions are worth and how many points to make. A 3 mark question would need 3 points I.e a statement, an explanation and an example. And for Maths the more working out you show, the easier it is to give marks, even if the answer is wrong.

You're clearly confident of his intelligence OP and have his younger sister as a tester, so it sounds very much as though he has a real issue with exams, as so many bright people do.

Is he able to concentrate on revision? Does he have major issues with timing? Any leads in the exam area at all?

Poor thing, he hasn't much time.

Another A level lecturer here.

Honestly, how much work is your son doing?

I agree with the previous poster that it is a relatively common phenomenon for bright students (particularly boys) who sail through their GCSEs with relatively little work and then get a huge shock at AS level.

The trouble is that there is so much detail to learn at AS, that it just can't be done without putting in the effort. Of course, some students manage to do last minute revision and pull it out of the bag... but many don't.

That's probably not a lot of help is it? But in my experience - this is the most common problem I have with bright but underachieving boys. I did a masters degree a few years ago, and my dissertation was on revision and I have to admit that I was shocked at the revision (or lack of) that some students do.

I think OP is saying that he fails at exams but can do all the other work well and even tries to do it well. Which sounds like exam nerves to me, not run-of-the-mill unmotivated laziness which was my first thought

But completing and passing a test, just after you've finished studying it is a lot easier than revising the whole module and learning a whole term / year's worth of work... Most teacher based assessments tend to be on the most recently completed work, (apart from mock exams which will often happen only once a year) so it is easier to blag these iyswim.

We have found with DS1 that A Levels are as much about exam technique as they are about knowledge.

Does your DS know the structure he needs to use for answers in each of his subjects? What are his subjects?

Does he feel panicked in exams? Can he feel in himself that he isn't doing well or is it a shock for him? Does he do practice papers and if he does what are his marks? Is it the style of exam or the exam atmosphere?

Really appreciate all your replies. I completely take on board necessity for hard graft if you want to do well, and I accept that DS does not work as hard as he could. But he completes all homework, 100% attendance, does well in practical tests, ok in class tests etc.. It just seems to go horribly wrong in the real exams. Head of geography says he's most able geographer in year! Often says he just doesn't know what the question was asking, iin Maths for example. Yet the tutor (former Maths Head) we had for all y12 said he understood all concepts and could get to the answer before her! He's also taking physics, p.e. It's as if a mist descends and he just can't decipher what is being asked of him. The trouble is that now after a raft of poor results, failure becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't think he believes he can do well. I know it sounds like I'm making excuses but I think it's the written exam/ exam environment that is the prob. Many thanks

I am not professional, but we too have a DS at sixth form who found transition form GCSE to A levels to be "mission impossible" it took a while for him to settle, to get serious and start studying.
At the moment he puts in two hours of studying every evening, and not covering every subject every evening, he also had some tutoring for his maths which helped immensely not only with raking the mathematical ground, but also with exam prep.
With our ds the situation was very difficult to start with back in September, ds cocky, full of himself thought ahhh this will be a doodle as it was for GCSE, well he was in for the rude awakening.
Point is, natural intellect and ability will take you only as far, without putting the work and time our ds would be going nowhere, and of course only they can decide when is the right time to sober up, wizen up and start working.
IMO whole situation has nothing to do with intellect, it is clear they are very bright boys, but rather with the attitude and work ethics.
Ds is not arrogant anymore, he realised there is a lot he still needs to work on if he wants to achieve and I can honestly say since I put "ball in his court" and let him worry about it, not me, things have improved and he became a lot more mature.
Revise, revise and then revise some more, effect on grades is almost immediate and results dramatically improve, if he needs help with subject that's a particular worry for him, if you can afford get him some help, good luck.

I don't think it sounds like excuses at all. One of DD2's friends at university (Oxford) is completely brilliant but can't do exams to save his life. His results are utterly incompatible with his ability too. It happens. I also completely recognise the problem of failure becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I have great sympathy but no solutions, unfortunately. I'll do my best to think, but his final exams are weeks away, no?

It sounds like lots of past pape practice might help. There are only a limited amout of questions (or type of questions) that can be asked and he may feel more prepared in the exam if he has gone through the model answer for X type of question or Y type of question.

Yellowtip A2 exams start at the start of June and if the OP's DS is doing retake exams from january or last year then these may be in the AS season which starts in early May. This may seem a long time away especially for my DS but actually it is less than a term away.

Exactly Colour. I should have said only weeks away. I'm very conscious that these weeks fly. So far I've had four DC take A2s and five take GCSEs, very mixed at their approach to exams. Believe me, I sympathise.

If it really is just down to the exams, and he doesn't understand what is being asked of him, then it sounds to me like he is almost in a state of panic. I agree with ColourMe that he may need is some help with putting questions into categories. I can remember doing this in my A level classes. There are only so many different types of questions they will ask .... we made broad categories and fitted loads of past paper questions into them (obviously this was in the dark ages of long ago). Then we made notes on a "model" answer for each type of question.

Oops sorry Yellow got the wrong end of the stick!

Thank you for all your comments. Think we will have to concentrate on help with exam technique, steadying nerves. Let's hope he can turn this round with only a few weeks to go.

Thought I'd let all you kind respondents know the latest....had DS assessed by Ed Psy. Transpires he is verbally gifted (!!! IQ 136) yet has only very average literacy skills and has therefore being diagnosed as dyslexic. It is such a relief to know there is a real reason for his under-achievement over the last few years. Although the school is now putting in place strategies to help him, he has only a few weeks left in school in Y13! All those years struggling. So to everyone out there, I would say always go with your parental instincts, they aren't usually wrong. Should have learnt from the experience of my DD as a baby, when despite my protestations to doctors, she was only diagnosed with a life-threatening/limiting illness at 3 years old!!! I had thought she was ill from 3 weeks old.
So dear wise ones, can anybody advise the best way to proceed re uni application. A gap year is inevitable, but can unis offer places for someone with low grades when they have only just been diagnosed at 18y 3mnths?

You got there one post before mine! I was going to suggest dyslexia. My sister bombed a level and went on to get a first once diagnosed and taught strategies. She also did badly at gcse. Another problem imo for the truly gifted can be an inability to understand the rather mundane nature of a level and gcse - more rote learning than real insight and flair. She didn't understand the basic nature of what was required and answered at too deep a level
Hope your son does well - my sister thrived once diagnosed. I think it is still under-recognised at schools (see previous comments on thread - sorry - not having a go, honestly, I only recognised it as it sounds identical to dsis)

You got there one post before mine! I was going to suggest dyslexia. My sister bombed a level and went on to get a first once diagnosed and taught strategies. She also did badly at gcse. Another problem imo for the truly gifted can be an inability to understand the rather mundane nature of a level and gcse - more rote learning than real insight and flair. She didn't understand the basic nature of what was required and answered at too deep a level
Hope your son does well - my sister thrived once diagnosed. I think it is still under-recognised at schools (see previous comments on thread - sorry - not having a go, honestly, I only recognised it as it sounds identical to dsis)

Post exam applications tend to be offered/rejected quite quickly as unis can already see the A level grades. If he is badly dyslexic and his school think it has had a big impact he may be better off resitting his A levels with a tutor with experience of SEN. Though there's nothing to stop him putting in a uni application too-then if he gets in he needn't bother with the resits (though he might be annoyed he's got a C when he could have got an A (for example) with the right kind of specific teaching).

If I were you I would be very, very annoyed with the school that they have never picked up on his dyslexia. And if it were my school and I were his teacher I would probably be questioning the diagnosis I'm afraid. It is very unusual nowadays for people to go through 7 years of secondary school, dozens of different teachers etc and noone even notice a level of dyslexia that could cause issues like this. (Ed psychs are getting paid remember-many kids are diagnosed as having SEN who don't.) I'm not saying the diagnosis is wrong, just that his school should be having a long hard look at themselves as if they were decent they would have noticed beforehand. Do they agree with the diagnosis?

That sounded more black and white than I intended. Most kids referred for diagnosis are there because they do have SEN and need the help. It's just very unusual that it happens so late and in the past diagnoses that happen very shortly before exams have been treated with some scepticism at every school I've worked at-because they are schools where they'd be mortified if they hadn't picked it up themselves before this point.

I was slightly like your son with regards to the shock of poor results at AS. I got 10 A*S just by coasting along and no revision for GCSE and the AS/A Levels came along and cocky me thought I'd succeed by still doing limited work! I didn't. I pulled it back for A Level and left with B,B,D but luckily still managed to get into a red brick uni for a MFL degree.

Obviously his poor grades now are a result of his dyslexia whereas mine were because of laziness! But I just wanted to say that with support there's no reason he can't still go to uni. Universities can be very good about dyslexia. I would recommend your DS contacting the Unis he wishes to apply for and asking them would he be considered. Heads of Department etc are good people to email. Then he can plan from there.

Kaloobear, I hear all you are saying. I am very very angry with the school but realise this won't help DS going forward. To cut a very long story short, we had previously raised our concerns to the school both orally & in writing that there was a vast gulf between ability in class (as told to us by teachers) and exam results (GCSE onwards), and that the situation needed further investigation. Most worringly no member of staff has ever contacted us post exam results which were always poor as against predicted grades. Nothing was ever done by the school, hence we organised Ed Psy app out of desperation at seeing our lovely boy become more and more disillusioned. In answer to your question, having given report to school and following meeting, school is in complete agreement with report! They have apologised that they did not pick up on this earlier, we didn't expect them to make any diagnosis themselves, just that they contacted appropriate professionals, particularly when prob flagged up by parents. DS attends very high achieving state school, and I'm afraid provided majority of students performing well to maintain league table position, not really worried about anyone else. School has agreed to provide necessary support for remaining few weeks and indeed support into another year, a Y14. It's the least they can do...our DS deserved so much better. But this is the situation we have, and we have to look forward...

Can he have a scribe for the exams? This could make a massive difference

misslivvy glad you have managed to get some answers from the ed psych. It can be harrowing when you are told there is no problem and you know as a parent that something is not quite right.

merci mentioned a scribe. I presume your ed psych told you what he would be entitled to as it will be as a result of some of the tests she carried out. Just being dyslexic doesn't mean that you automatically qualify. She will have tested his writing speed, reading speed etc So he may be entitled to extra time and use of a computer.

My DS is dyslexic and has a few other issues so I have been where you are at the moment. I was given a tip once and it was this:
"Make sure your DS doesn't use dyslexia as an excuse."
Yes, it is a reason ( a very valid one) and the school should have picked it up earlier, but they have to live in the normal world so to speak. As you say the important thing is to look forward. Unfortunately for our DSs this means that to achieve they actually have to work harder, hence the important point about it not being an excuse.
Good luck to your DS.

I'm glad the school are supporting him now - that's awful that they ignored your requests for support/referral before. It sounds like he would really benefit from some one on one tutoring so he can be shown techniques and strategies to cope in exams, best ways to revise etc. I've taught dozens of dyslexic children who've gone on to get As and A*s and into top universities, admittedly with one on one tutoring from a specialist from quite a lot younger than your son but all is definitely not lost. Also, when he's looking at unis make sure he checks out what support they have available for undergrads in this regard as some are excellent and some pretty poor.