state school admissions

[Pesofanclub]

Are state schools under any obligation to offer adission places to local children or can they just choose whatever admissions policy they like? Anyone in the know as currently fighting a change in admission procedures...

prh47bridge is the expert on the admissions code

When you say you are fighting a change in the admission policy, is this for sept 2013 entry, which will be being consulted on now or is it for sept 2012 entry?
Any change to the admission policy is OK as long as it meets the code and there is a new code for Sept 2013 admissions.
Can you be more specific about the change that you are fighting? PM if you want. The general principle is that schools do not have to offer admission places to local children but that they must not disadvantage them, so it will be depend on the wording of the change.
There is actually only one legal arbiter of the rules and that is the School Adjudicator when it comes to admission criteria.

Thanks for the recommendation TalkinPeace2. I am not the only expert around here - admission and PanelChair are also experts.

I would also like to know more.

Schools cannot choose whatever admissions policy they like. They must comply with the Admissions Code. They do not have to give priority to local children although most do through having a catchment area and/or using distance as a tie breaker. However, as Admission says, they cannot disadvantage local children either.

I am also happy to receive a PM if you don't want to post information publicly.

The school has several feeder schools and is now planning to introduce a lottery instead of placements on a geographical basis. The feeder schools are not local either.

Oh and change would be for sept 2013

I'm assuming this is an academy, free school or faith school?

So they are still giving priority to children from the feeder schools but selecting using a lottery rather than using distance from the school as the tie breaker? If that is the case there is nothing wrong with that at all. The tie breaker must be clear but it does not have to be distance. They are permitted to use a lottery as the tie breaker.

I think I know what school you are talking about.

If you live close to the school then you will be at a disadvantage if a lottery is brought in. Although some schools that have a lottery still will accept a percentage, say 10%, based on Distance from the school so if you are quite close to the school you would still have a chance.

I, on the other hand will be at an advantage, as live far from the school and would love to get in!

So a school paid for by the local council can disregard local students then? And that is in keeping with current environmental concerns? Kids who could walk or cycle to school will lose places to kids who will have to be bused in or brought in by cars. I just don't get it. And feeder schools which will account for almost three quarters of the places can come from anywhere at all? How is this permissable?

We have a lottery for our secondary schools too, as long as you are in the large catchment area a descision will be made for oversubscribed schools by a lottery

But do your secondary schools also have feeder schools pinkhebe?

we don't have any feeder schools - sorry I'm not quite sure what they are!

It is a primary school whose pupils are guaranteed a place at a particular secondary.

If this is the school I think it is, they have three or four primaries whom they have offered guranteed places to ( none of which are local). The remaining places will then be done as a lottery but there is a good chance there will be few remaining places especially after priority is also given to siblings, sens and teachers' children.

Is this at all legitimate?

They shouldn't be offering any absolute guarantees. After all, there may be so many looked after and SEN children that there isn't room for everyone from their feeder schools. They can, however, offer a high priority which in most years will effectively guarantee a place.

They should not give priority to teachers' children other than in specific circumstances.

Apart from those points this is 100% legitimate.

And in response to your earlier post, no school can disadvantage local students but nor do they have to give priority to local students. Indeed, unless the school operates a formal catchment area they cannot give priority to children just because they happen to live within the LA's area. The courts ruled some years ago that this was illegal.

I thought the rules had just changed again on teacher's children?

The rules have changed but they still don't allow a school to give general priority to teachers' children. Children of staff can be given priority if the member of staff concerned has been employed by the school for at least two years at the time of application or if the member of staff has been recruited to a post for which there is a demonstrable skill shortage.

I am really confused by this. There are a few decent state schools that are not in my local area that I have been told I would never get a place at as you have to live on their doorstep, yet this is illegal??

And if the school is giving priority to specific primary schools outside the local area does that mean they are disadvantaging local children - surely it does?

No, that is not illegal at all. School's are allowed to use distance from school as a tie breaker. Most do. For a popular school that can mean that you have to live very close to the school to stand any chance of getting a place. For schools a long way from the boundary of the LA's area that means only children from within the LA have a realistic chance of getting a place. In that situation children from neighbouring LAs aren't losing out because they live in a neighbouring LA. They are losing out because they live too far from the school. Nothing wrong with that.

Whether or not giving priority to specific primary schools outside the local area is a problem depends on the details. Without knowing which school we are talking about and what is proposed I am not in a position to comment. Feel free to PM me with this information if you want me to look further.

The borough I live in is considering moving to a lottery rather than distance as tiebreaker, which I think is a great thing for the area, as you have to live literally on the doorstep at the moment to get in anywhere.

However, I am interested to know what happens if you are unsuccessful in getting a place at your chosen school under the lottery system- do you remain on the school's waiting list? Will an in-year place be allocated through another ballot? Does that make sense?

Most LAs will put you on the waiting list automatically but I would always ring to make sure. And yes, they have to hold a fresh ballot whenever a place becomes available.

Thank you, prh.

Fifivisage - local authorities do not pay for local schools - all schools are funded through central taxation, not council tax. LAs just (to a greater or lesser extent, depending on whether they are community, academy and so on) adminster them. They do distribute the monies for those under their direct control (obviously not "free" schools") but have little (perhaps no) discretion as the funding follows a centrally set formula.

When a new school is being set up and they submit their plans and mission statement/reasons why they should exist and should receive government funding. Is it illegal to then, a few years into existence, do a turnaround on their original premise?

Also can anyone shed light on how a state school comes into being?

I presume you are asking about free schools rather than community schools. A community school doesn't have to submit plans, mission statements and so on.

A free school is subject to a funding agreement. They must comply with that agreement. The funding agreement does not generally tie the school rigidly to its original mission statement, plans, etc. as the school needs the freedom to adapt to changing circumstances, but nor does it give them complete freedom to do whatever they want.

The process of setting up a free school starts with a group of people deciding to start a school. They will start looking at things like potential demand, potential sites, what help they need and so on. They will at some point set up a company limited by guarantee (the Academy Trust) to protect themselves by limiting their liability if it goes wrong. The company will normally also be a charity. They then submit an application to the Department for Education who will assess the suitability of the people involved and various other aspects in making a decision whether or not to allow the school to proceed. If the applicants are successful they will sign a funding agreement with the DfE. This is a legal agreement with which they must comply.

Our local high school is an academy and it has about 4 or 5 local primary schools which are feeder schools. You are almost 100% likely to get a place at the academy as long as your child is in the feeder school. I only put the one high school on my daughters application as I had no worries that she wasn't going to get in. All the primary schools are full now though as the high school is one of the best state schools in the north of England!!