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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

DS1 wants some advice from you Wise and Knowledgable MNers...

49 replies

MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic · 13/03/2012 20:22

He doesn't know how to choose between his final two choices, Music and Art. Neither of them will have any bearing on his future career (he wants to be an Engineer),both his teachers want him to take the GCSE, and he enjoys both subjects equally. Does anyone have any additional info that will help him make up his mind; anyone have any DCs doing one or the other or both?

He really can't do both - he only has one slot left and he's happy with all the other choices he's making. FWIW his other subjects will be English (x2), Maths, Triple Science, French, History and Computing.

TIA

OP posts:

startail · 13/03/2012 23:45

Can't help, DD1 is doing both because she hates the history syllabus.

I'm hoping music will be OK as she sings as naturally as breathing.

I'm dreading art, she loves it, but isn't very good. She says it's for "fun" I'm not convinced it's going to be!

Original poster

MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic · 13/03/2012 23:51

The bulk of his GCSEs are 2 years study with examinations at the end, it's all gone very circular. They seem to have made their way back to O'Levels...

I get the impression from speaking to his teachers that there will be a lot of homework and I want him to bring it home (atm he does the bulk of it at lunchtime in the ICT suite and I think he doesn't do it justice rushing it like that)

OP posts:

Original poster

MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic · 14/03/2012 00:01

startail The way DS1s school organises the options, he had to take either History or Geography, the Music/Art/Dance/Drama/one other subject I can't remember option group is completely separate. Not to say he couldn't have done both, but he wants to do Computing from the additional options that would have allowed that. They've essentially grouped their options so that no matter what, each child will take subjects that will cover the English Bac.

OP posts:

SecretSquirrel193 · 14/03/2012 00:10

Would he consider dropping the computer option? When I left school 5hrs ago, it was considered a bit of a silly subject as its evolving so quickly its redundant as soon as its taught - we were advised to do maths/a science as this shows you are able to understand complex ideas which would transfer across to computery stuff if needed (IIRC this is what my friend did - he wanted to work in a computer area, but was advised to do the maths route for gsce/a level and all worked out well)

LineRunner · 14/03/2012 00:12

Least insane teacher?

kipperandtiger · 14/03/2012 00:18

I've also heard from those who took Art GCSE how time consuming it was and how difficult it is to score a good grade. As someone who has looked at CVs for picking candidates for a job, having one GCSE fewer is better than having a poor grade (eg a C if everything else is A, or a D or E if everything else is C or better). For Music, check the exam requirements - some boards insist you already have Grade 6, 7 or 8 in the practical exam (taken separately) and if you only have grade 6 the highest you can get is a C (or something like that). If he already has at 7 or more other GCSE subjects that he is likely to do reasonably well in, I would leave both out unless he is really good at one of them. If you are going to apply for Engineering courses that are popular or tough to get in, all being equal, the same grade (eg A) in Music looks slightly more impressive than the same grade (eg A) in Art. I'm not biased against Art - I'm just saying what the general perception in that field is. But if he is ever to want to do an artistically inclined career at any point at all - eg Architecture, Graphic Design, Marketing, etc - then Art would be much better.

Clary · 14/03/2012 00:20

Art is a lot of work. At our school all the artists in yr 11 have totally vanished from the planet as they spend every lunchtime doing their coursework.

It's not in any way at all something you can do quickly (whereas with French for example, if you are skillful and talented at it you can whizz through it) so it is very time consuming. His other choices sound pretty heavy (good choices tho!) so I would say music; not that it is easy but it's less of a mahoosive workoad.

kipperandtiger · 14/03/2012 00:22

PS. Engineering does not tend to demand polymaths with eleven or so GCSEs. But the maths and science subjects must be tip top - take double maths if he can (Maths and Additional Maths, or Further Maths, whatever it's called nowadays), and definitely Physics, Chemistry. Biology or Geography if available. Aim to get A or A*s in the two Maths, Physics and Chemistry. Good grades in the rest would help but not mandatory.

kipperandtiger · 14/03/2012 00:35

PS Keep the Computing - it's in almost all Engineering courses nowadays. Unless he feels he's not very good at it and is likely to score a poor grade in it, in which case leave it out. Can I just doublecheck that by Triple Science you mean 3 separate subjects of Physics, Chemistry and Biology which awards 3 GCSE grades rather than Combined Science (which is just one GCSE)? And to request Double Maths instead of just single maths? At A levels, Physics and Maths are essential to apply to engineering. The third A level could be Further Maths or Chemistry depending on what he feels his strengths are. The History can stay on if he feels he isn't likely to do Civil Engineering. But if he is at all interested in Civil Engineering, Geography would be more helpful and relevant than History. I would keep the French definitely - it might help his job prospects in more ways than you realise. Extra languages are always a bonus for getting jobs and university places. (I know you didn't ask for advice about his other subjects, but choosing art vs music is more relevant if you look at what his other subjects are.)

Original poster

MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic · 14/03/2012 00:50

The 3 GCSE triple Science kipper. I'm not sure exactly what's going on with Maths actually - I should have asked. He started his GCSE Maths course in Yr 8 so might actually be doing it as an AS in Yr 10.

He's absolutely keeping the Computing, he wants to do that more than either Art or Music anyway When he found out that taking it means he gets to drop core ICT as well - 5 periods of programming and building actual computers has made his nerdy little heart happy! We're going to get him a Raspberry Pi to play with.

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kipperandtiger · 14/03/2012 02:01

Yes, 3 separate sciences is a good choice. Ah yes, AS Maths is/was the other name for Additional Maths. He's got quite a lot of subjects already. How about drop both Art and Music, or do Music (if there are free instrument lessons), but consider not sitting the exam? This isn't quitting - this is tactical pruning. I did the same with music when it was my turn some years ago. Didn't want a poor grade because I didn't have time to reach Grade 8 practical and I already had plenty of other subjects. Computing is good if he likes that stuff - he could invent something epic in later life.

BikeRunSki · 14/03/2012 11:21

If he is interested in Civil or Environmental engineering (what I do), he will find Geography invaluable, as their is so much Environmental Impact Assessment involved now. Computing is essential too, many, many IT applications used in day to day earning-your-living engineering as well as on undergraduate courses.

Original poster

MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic · 14/03/2012 19:30

I'm not sure quite what sort it is he wants to do (I know nothing about engineering short of the fact that BILs degree in Electrical Engineering makes him quite handy for soldering circuits...) From what I can gather what appeals is the creative/tinkering side of inventing and improving things, a bit like Howard from Big Bang Theory but not necessarily for NASA

As an aside, he belongs to his schools Science and Engineering club and as part of that they're getting a subsidised trip to Switzerland to see the Large Hadron Collider at CERN in July. If he gets to go (limited places) I will be immensely jealous

OP posts:

startail · 15/03/2012 01:06

DDs school frites stuff really sensibly almost every combination seemed possible.

She simply had to get a senior teacher to sign off that she had a good reason for not doing the E Bac.

That's easy she's dyslexic, French is the only thing she's in set 3 for and her class riots continuously. She is so far behind I'd have to pay for a tutor for her to stand a chance of her getting a C.

(I gave up French for similar reasons, lots of grotty teachers leading to very poor behaviour and we were the top set)

startail · 15/03/2012 01:06

Frites WTF I wrote groups

Parly · 15/03/2012 01:14

My husband is a mechanical design engineer and out of the two, suggests he take art. Not taking art isn?t going to cause him any problems mind you but there is quite a bit of drawing / design that come with the job.

Moominmammacat · 15/03/2012 08:59

EdithWeston, I fear GCSE music no longer counts as Grade 5 theory for getting you to higher practical grades. I've noticed absolutely no pure theory in GCSE music.

EdithWeston · 15/03/2012 18:13

Moominmammacat - many thanks for the update: last time I looked, it was still there, with a caveat to contact ABRSM - maybe that was code for 'only certain boards are good enough'? It has now vanished from the ABRSM website altogether: only grade 5 theory will do.

Time to get the DCs to do a few more pages of the theory workbooks!

Original poster

MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic · 16/03/2012 07:41

Thank you very much for all your help - it's been much appreciated and it has helped.

FWIW DS1 has settled on Music. Downside is that we're going to have to go get him a new guitar as we've just realised that a 3/4 sized acoustic isn't really going to work with a hulking great 5'9" teenager...

Thanks again.

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circular · 16/03/2012 08:38

EdithWeston - never heard that about the GCSE pass waiviring the need for grade 5 Theory. Although Trinity board do not require the theory, but I am told have an extra piece and/or harder/more scales.

MrsDmitri - only just noticed the thread. FWIW DD (YR10) has same subjects as your DS but Geography instead of History. Music takes up more time than any other subject for her because she lets it! One extra CA activity is compulsory at her school,and solo performing in the twice annual concerts is expected. Art has a much higher workload - from those she knows taking it.

EdithWeston · 16/03/2012 12:36

circular: it used to be the case: a while ago it was automatic, but I looked it up last year (I think) to see if it still counted (in my day it was O level, which definitely did) and it was still on the ABRSM website then, but caveated that you needed to contact them to confirm it (hence my suspicion that only certain boards still had sufficient content). It's now vanished, which must mean that it no longer applies at all.

circular · 16/03/2012 13:19

The question appears on the FAQs here. www.abrsm.org/en/exams/frequentlyaskedquestions/#exemptions

EdithWeston · 16/03/2012 17:15

thanks, circular!

bossboggle · 18/03/2012 10:42

My DS currently studying music amongst his other academic GCSE's. Music is life long and may be useful in social situations when your son is older. Good luck with the choices.

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