Yr 7 maths classes - how are they usually organised?

[LunarSea]

I've just been trawling through the websites/prospectuses for the secondary schools we could apply to for ds1 (currently Y5). I was a bit surprised to see that those that mention anything about it seem to explicitly say that they don't set in Y7 so maths (and everything else) is taught in form groups.

Coming from a primary where although it's only 2 classes per year they've been setted for maths and literacy this seems a step backwards. Is this normal? And if so what do they do to stretch the more able pupils?

Really varies from school to school but it's not unusual to not set in year 7. A good teacher will differentiate effectively.

I'd be worried - any schools you've seen that do set?

DS is in Year 7 and all subjects are taught in form groups. At the end of the academic year there will be an examination. The results will form the basis for streaming in Year 8.

I think that the logic is that kids come from various backgrounds so Year 7 is where the school tries to get all the kids to the same level so that streaming in year 8 reflects their abilities as oppose to their academic/non academic primary background.

Maths teacher here - my school sets Y7 at November half term based on baseline assessments and a first term test.

Until they set, I do find it very difficult to deal effectively with the range of levels in the class - in a mixed group this would be from N to getting on to a level 6. I know some teachers might be brilliant at differentiation to such a level, but as maths is usually taught to sets I'm not used to it and always heave a sigh of relief when then are setted. I never feel like I'm stretching the top end and the bottom end tend to get lost.

Mixed ability teaching is very difficult in maths compared to other subjects where you can differentiate by outcome.

inkyfingers - none that explicitly mention it - but 2 of the 4 local secondaries explictly say they don't.

ds1 is a bit of a maths whizz and having already had 3 years of him not learning anything in maths at school (despite the setting!) we've had various minor behvioural issues derived from boredom, because whatever they say about differentiation, they don't do it (or don't do enough of it) in practice. I really don't want to see him starting in a new school with that situation continued, or as it sounds, exaggerated further.

pusheed - it's that whole "tries to get all the kids to the same level" ethos which worries me - by definition that means that they won't be trying to teach anything new to those who've already attained those levels.

DS1 is in year 7, and they were set at the start of the second term, based on a combination of Year 6 SATs results and an assessment test at the end of the first term.

OP, it is just one of the factors you need to consider when you choose the secondary school; it isn't important for everyone, but might be for you.

ds1 is a bit of a maths whizz and having already had 3 years of him not learning anything in maths at school
It may not make much difference to him if they are set or not if he is already this far ahead OP. Even if they are set it sounds as if he would be ahead of the others anyway. It's worth asking the school what they could offer for him. Don't be surprised though if your choices are

1. He does the same as the others with extension activities where appropriate
2. He works on his own on more advanced work and seeks help if it's needed

I know neither is ideal but it is often just not possible to effectively accommodate these students with the time/staff/resources available. However, if he is as good as he sounds he would be more than ok 'getting on with it'. Whether or not he would be interested /motivated is another thing.

DCs school set in Maths about 1/2 term. At least partly because SAT results don't always bear any relationship to performance at secondary. It also gives then 1/2 a term to: do MIDYrs test, and wake up brains that may not have done any work for 3 or 4 months, depending on the primary school. (It also gives their teachers a chance to spot that someone like my son does far worse in the test than in class; this lead to him re-doing it with extra-time.)
However the secondary may teach whole new areas of Maths quite soon, and may use far more creative methods.

It varies. I have worked in a school where they set for everything from mid-autumn yr 7.

Where I work now we set for Maths in yr 7 and everything else is taught in form groups. MFL set from yr 8. English never set whcih makes me do this face but I don't teach it so I don't have to grapple with that.

DS1's school works with a teaching group but maths and science are set from yr 7 (maths) and yr 8 (science).

Ours sets on SATs from the start and confirms with CATs very early in Y7.

Doesn't stop them making a complete fuck up of it.

DD somehow ended up in set 3 for maths and therefore science. She was the last year to do real science SATs. She had a 5 for science and a 4 for Maths.
Was bursting to go to the loo and mucked up her quantitive test.

I had massive moan at parents evening. Maths had wanted to move her at Xmas science said it was good for her social skills where she was till the summer.

She was acting as the bloody TA for a really dopy group that's why he wanted to keep her

She was top in the last set 2 maths test

Sorry OP bit of a rant.

To answer your question, I think setting by Xmas would be better for preventing errors, but is nightmare for pupils and teachers to live through.
(my school did this, I did fractions for the third time

At the school where my son is due to start in September they set in maths from the beginning of Yr 7, based on the teacher assessment from primary school. At my son's primary school there are two classes per year and they already set for maths. I agree I would see it as a backwards step if the secondary school didn't set.

The policy for setting tends to depend on the school intake. We found that schools that had a high percentage of pupils at level 5 on entry tended to place pupils in sets later than schools that had the full range of ability.
Most secondary schools do not just use the KS2 SATs and primary school teacher assessments though. dds school sets for Maths from the November of the Y7 and also uses CATs scores and other tests e.g. NFER. However the sets for primary school may not correlate with those at secondary school and it does not necessarily follow that a child in the top set at primary school will remain there at secondary school. The other thing you need to check is whether movement between sets occurs at the end of each year as schools can have cut-off points for this and other do not.

In DD's comp they have setting for everything from year 7, but they are in the same set for all subjects. The initial setting was on the basis of the banding test for school admission in the autumn of year 6. They do move quite a few children at the end of the first term - they say they base this on their scores in maths and English and to a lesser extent in science. The levels in her maths class at the beginning of her second term in year 7 ranged from high level 5 to level 8. If you are very good at maths but poor at English you will not be in the top set.

Hmm - sounds like I'm going to have to be one of those annoying parents who asks awkward questions! Good to hear that most schools do manage to get them organised without it taking a whole year though.

DCs school set for Maths, English, Science, Humanities and MFL seperately from day one, based on SATs, and CATs taken on the induction day in July before they start.