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Did Supply in a new Academy yesterday and feel sad

166 replies

gabid · 06/03/2012 13:07

Yesterday I went into a once failing school in a deprived area that has been an Academy for a year now. The first impression was good - new buildings, great photos of children in the reception area, but at the end of the day I felt sad Sad.

There was no ino given to me (e.g. rewards and sanctions, map of the school etc) so I felt I was sent into the classroom 'naked'. I had to ask someone in the staffroom.

In general, I felt the kids weren't motivated or interested, even the better groups, behaviour in class and around the school was very poor (shouting, swearing - just lots of noise). I entered a couple of classrooms and there was lots of rubbish on the floor (in period 4 and 5).

I spoke to some members of staff and they didn't seem to have enough textbooks to go round, I didn't see many in the classrooms either.

And in P5 I taught a bottom Y9 group who didn't know their timestables and after the lesson on the way out I had to break up a fight.

Shouldn't things change and improve with turning a school into an Academy?

OP posts:
JWIM · 08/03/2012 14:16

Kez100 You were quick to challenge an insurance cost so I offered an actual example. If academies have to buy in buildings insurance where will they fund it from? If from the slice of funds that previously went to the LA then that reduces the extra they might chose to spend to improve pupil outcomes, assuming that extra funding over what LA schools get continues - and that is not guaranteed.

Kez100 · 08/03/2012 14:21

Why return to it?

Insurance costs are somewhat higher to the public purse.

However, this increase in cost to the public purse is offset to a unknown degree - maybe completely offset, maybe not - by the cost the LEA had of self insuring (i.e the repairs they paid for because they couldn't claim on insurance which those quoting the extra cost conveniently forget) and as time goes on more competiton will affect these payments too.

There is no more to say.

Kez100 · 08/03/2012 14:26

JWIM - There are example costs on the Anti-academy website. I was questionning the £800,000 cost per annum for £8m cover. Indeed, when looking at a schools situation to convert, this needs to be taken into account - absolutely it must. It's a very involved decision.

JWIM · 08/03/2012 14:31

Kez 100 I wish your academy well. I hope it does deliver the promise of better outcomes for all pupils, for current pupils and those still to come.

May the competition in pricing for services to educational establishments actually come about, and soon - otherwise many may rue the day that they opted for Academy status.

Kez100 · 08/03/2012 14:42

Jwim - And I wish your small Primary well too. I am sure you have made the best decision too. I can fully understand how the plan could come together and show that staying with a LEA is the far better option.

qumquat · 08/03/2012 14:55

I would be reprimanded as a 'lazy teacher' if I used a text book. I think it's ridiculous but there you go. I'm not surprised that the poster with a child at an independent school's DC had lots of text books, indie's tend to (generalisation) teach in a much more traditional way and would likely get 'unsatisfactory' from Ofsted. Which is why I'd love teach in one!

Rosebud05 · 08/03/2012 15:51

In response to the OP, there's no evidence that things improve when schools convert to academies. Some do, though many don't.

Some academies are good. Some are not. Some maintained schools are good. Some are not.

Which is why it's crazy to suggest that academy conversion is a guarantee of school improvement, as this current government does.

Kez100 · 08/03/2012 18:30

That is absolutely true. It is not a guarantee of improvement. Each school converting will have it's own ideas of how the changes, for them, can help them toward a goal of improvement but it is no guarantee of success in itself.

So many factors need to come together to create a successful school.

gabid · 08/03/2012 20:35

Oh, I see now, its all just about moving money and power around a bit with the aim of saving the government money - nothing to do with education at all.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 08/03/2012 21:26

gabid - It is definitely not about saving money for the government. Academies cost the government just as much as any other type of school.

noblegiraffe · 08/03/2012 21:27

When they close the LAs and make all those people redundant, that'll save money won't it?

TalkinPeace2 · 08/03/2012 21:50

noble
at the moment in the LEA there is ONE person responsible for (say) getting generators to schools that have power cuts covering all 680 schools.
But once they are all academies there have to be 680 people, 680 supplier accounts, no bulk discount
resulting in a secondary school with no proper power for two days and 1600 pupils' learning disrupted, rather than the LEA dragging in one of its regular sources of generators
(not that it's brought it all into v v sharp focus mind ....)
does not sound like much of a money saving to me.

prh47bridge · 08/03/2012 23:42

noblegiraffe - No. The LAs have to continue to supply certain services and will continue to receive funding for doing so. The schools have to provide other services for themselves and receive additional funding to allow them to do so. If every single school in an LA converted to academy status the government would not save a single penny.

TalkinPeace2 - What a strange idea. If a school has a power cut it will, in general, close until power can be restored. If a generator is needed due to an extended power cut it is generally up to the school to source a generator and pay for it, not the LA. Schools are responsible for their own purchasing and have been for many years.

JWIM · 09/03/2012 08:54

prh I think talkinpeace2 and I have experience of the same LA and here most schools would be able to call the LA (having subscribed to property services support) and they would sort matters - indeed academies can also buy in this service, but at an increased price to maintained schools.

I would say that we are fortunate in the LA we have and not all schools may have the same support.

TalkinPeace2 · 09/03/2012 13:22

prh
Hampshire County Council (for it is they) have a fantastic emergency property services response team that literally DOES bring in experts and generators at the drop of a hat to schools and other council managed buildings
the school is back online now but DSs tech lesson in an electricity free room was "interesting"

The scary thing about LAs is that even the tiniest ones seem to have the same number of directors and managers on humungous salaries - and as they are responsible for less and less schools the inefficiency will just increase.

which does make me wonder how much money will be saved as against expertise lost in the long run

and politicians forget that year 9 are only year 9 once - if the system goes pear shaped in that year, they are affected for life.

JWIM · 09/03/2012 13:54

TalkinPeace2 my impression is that HCC are looking to offer their services across county borders to fill the gaps where LAs decide to reduce their services to their maintained schools as well as offering Academies (in Hampshire and elsewhere) the opportunity to buy in services. From my school's point of view I am all in favour if it means HCC continues to operate as currently.

TalkinPeace2 · 09/03/2012 16:57

JWIM
The late lamented David Kirk was a very good man who put education in Hampshire onto a better footing than in many other areas. We are lucky.
It will be interesting to see how much HCC are now able to deal with academies in neighbouring counties !!

prh47bridge · 09/03/2012 20:05

I did say "generally" because I know some areas do deal with this centrally. I probably shouldn't have said it was a strange idea - sorry! But if we get away from generators, the general rule is that schools are responsible for their own purchasing.

I'm sure there will be a number of LAs that offer services to academies in the way you describe.

morethanpotatoprints · 15/03/2012 18:57

I really object to the comparison of childrens ability and character to whether they receive free meals or not. Does anybody else?

Rosebud05 · 15/03/2012 20:34

There isn't any relationship between children's ability and character and FSM, an dyes, I object to suggestions that there is.

There is, overall, a relationship between children's attainment and FSM though, and I object when this isn't acknowledged and any under-attainment of children is blamed on their teachers.

Kez100 · 16/03/2012 06:59

It's a Data Set, not a reference to a particular character.

Designed to identify - within data analysis - trends which can be used and other things. As one of the trends has been lower attainment I think the data is used now to calculate pupil premium to support learning.

bossboggle · 16/03/2012 16:36

Kumquat - the government want all secondary schools to become academies in the future, I believe by 2015. The head of the school that my DS attends says that it will happen, for those that choose to wait and sit it out she thinks that it will be forced on the schools to change just as many years ago schools amalgamated and became comprehensives so the academies are looming large!! By the way the opposition are behind the academies drive too just as they are about uniform standards becoming more formal - the drive towards blazers, shirts and ties if you have not already done so.

Mutteroo · 20/03/2012 13:46

Schools are being forced to become academies because supposedly academies are better funded. Parents are being duped into believing academies are better than schools who have chosen not to convert and so before long most schools will feel they have no choice!

I'm an ex chair of governors and watched my old infant and junior schools amalgamate under the promise of a new building. Of course that hasn't happened and is unlikely unless the school finds support to become an academy. The current buildings are in appalling state and one building was deemed "unsuitable for purpose". It's such a sad state of affairs.

warwick1 · 03/04/2012 15:42

If the local academy is run by an academy chain group (sponsored or not) they will certainly remunerate their staff well. Many setup up other service companies with other private enterprises as well and then insist that the academies in their chain 'purchase' these services, all out of public funding (tax payers).

Because they are part of a chain, the local academy's board of governors are appointed by the Main Trust Board which runs the chain and therefore have no authority, if the academy is failing the only thing a governor with integrity can do it appears is resign - which many do.

The problems seem to lie with those academies created during the labour government and which now as the chains rush to expand have been left behind because the academy trust chains are concentrating their efforts on their 'new academies', which I assume are bringing in more money to their coffers to fund even higher central executive staff remuneration.

Academies in themselves aren't a bad thing, it just depends on the trust management running them how well they do.

It isn't clear what happens if a Trust chain continues to fail an academy, will the DFE step in and transfer the academy to another chain, or will the academy be allowed to join another 'outstanding' academy in its local area.

How long will students education be damaged before the DFE acts or is the government frightened of losing face by admitting that one of its favoured chains has failed.

Will the new Ofsted inspector act to rescue these academies.

prh47bridge · 03/04/2012 16:53

You start with head and then the governors who do have authority regardless of who appoints them. If you are unhappy you can then go to Ofsted or the DfE.

If an academy is failing it can be placed in special measures. If it fails to improve the Secretary of State can appoint additional governors, replace the governing body completely or close the academy. This is similar to what happens when a community school is failing. The timescales are the same. Some academies have already been in special measures.

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