Cheltenham Ladies College or Wycombe Abbey?

[glenmore]

Anyone out there with current experience of these schools and what sort of girl would best fit either school?

Sorry typo - CA??? I meant CLC.

I am a WA senior and go back every now and then to do a careers talk to 6th formers. You know all the stuff about the fantastic facilities and results, so I'll tell you that the girls I meet are almost uniformly confident, focussed, charming company and from what I see, there doesn't seem to be a "type" - which I think is a positive. Very international, has definitely moved on from the priviliged sloaney set from back in the day. The opportunities are incredible - never mind the polo team and the school trips to Peru (o dear god the £££), there's a flying scholarship... They impress me hugely, and I shall be selling a kidney or two to get my girls in there if they're bright enough.

oh dear 'thinkingof' - havent' had any bullying exp at WAS - but what is the housemistress doing about it? she is the one to sort it. i'm so sorry your poor girl is suffering - can her big sister help? parties where one girl is excluded? not on!

'bobbi' glad you are so supportive!

Why they don't suit shy girls is because they are both 'take no prisoners' schools. I know WA by rep and meeting girls there. D at CLC. They are about training racehorses to run the Arc de Triomphe and if, for any reason, you are not a perfect equine specimen it can be very very hard, despite all the b.s. they feed you about 'treating everyone as an individual.' Certainly in the case of CLC, that's the last thing they want! CLC is about to go through a very dodgy period, there is a lot of discontent behind the scenes and unless your daughter is a feisty, ultra confident, A* in everything, conformist, conservative, non questioning, sport mad, heading for PPE at Balliol - then don't kid yourself and seriously forget it !!

Thinkingofthefuture A friends daughter had a similar experience at WA at first. She is quirky and geeky and the demented house mistress decided to put the "strong character" (for which read attention seeker with serious issues) in her dorm because it "would settle her down", but she made her life a misery, playing manipulative games to ensure all the others excluded her, but after some parental ear bashing they swapped it all around, she found some allies and the issue resolved itself. The Housemistress was an ex pupil and straight out of Bunty magazine, complete with brogues and tweeds and just couldn't have the first idea about teenage norms. She is certainly very happy now and being very clever thrives. However I felt the whole place felt a bit Bunty/ Enid Blyton but maybe that is what some people want.

However I do know of girls who have been taken out as a result of becoming very depressed by a combination of pressure and bitchy clever alpha girls.

They also have some very close links that they strangely greatly value with ridiculouly pushy Asian schools, they will therefore get the narrow over tutored Asian girls who will stick together and to their language

CLC is the only Boarding School that I would have considered for my daughters (I am the UK guardian of a few ex pat girls so I have contact with several and have been round a lot more) Everyone who I have known go to CLC has been happy and has done well. Whilst they have a lot of overseas students they are also much better at understanding and dealing with girls from other cultures and achieving a genuine mix than other boarding schools. CLC is also distinguished by being in town and having a genuine distance between school and house and so pupils have to mix with real people on the way home etc. more like real life. It also benefits from more of a mix of day and boarding, and in between and that maybe why it is better at integrating girls who aren't a "type". Some of these schools feel very cloistered, particularly Benenden, but once again maybe that is what some people want. It feels more grounded , more "normal" than other Boarding Schools. Indeed it is the school chosen by the expats who I know who are teachers themselves and find themselves reluctantly first time buyers of Boarding School education for their daughters. Vicky Tuck was very good and inclusive. I can't comment on the new Head though, it seems unlikely she could change it's character that quickly .

However I absolutely agree with Needmoresleep. The Boarding Schools even more than the day schools have very distinctive characters. They are competing in a crowded market and have to differentiate themselves to survive. The Good Schools Guide is good at summing it up. You and your child will know when you go round them which feels right.

well sadly - there are demented housemistresses everywhere. it's the problem with ... people. and schools are all about people. we've been v. lucky with ours - but even she doesn't suit everyone. there are no perfect schools - and even if you think yours is perfect - i guarantee you it's not perfect all the time. and totally disagree with Good Schools guide - boy do they ever get things wrong!

and yes - boarding schools do by their very nature have distinctive characters - which makes them special. you don't just turn up and have your lessons like day school. there are more traditions, little quirks and secret languages, antiquated and crazy customs - all of which make them quite special. my daughter will remember her boarding school years in a way that she won't her day school era. she will remember late night escapades, mini dramas with roommates, mad matrons, and rule breaking (oh yes i fear!). it's not a perfect world - but on balance you usually get a shared community experience that's memorable and unique. i had lunch just today with my best friend from boarding school - haven't seen her in 3 years - and i feel just as close to her today as i did when we were breaking into the kitchens to steal coco pops at 3 am age 17.

Mendip made these comments back in march on another thread about Cheltenham. As we are seriously considering it for our DD (having visited just about everywhere else and think CLC stands head and shoulders above them all for our DD) I took it upon myself to contact the friend i have whose DD has just left the school and asked her view. She then contacted a few of her friends who still have daughters in the school. They were all shocked that anyone could think this as they believe the new head is going down exceptionally well, is VERY well liked by all the staff and the girls and if anything is going to make the improvements to the school which the parents wanted - i.e. improving the boarding accommodation.
If you ask me - Mendip is one disgruntled parent with an axe to grind - you get them everywhere. I was completely satisfied with the responses I got and am super confident it is, and will continue to be, the great place i have witnessed on many many visits!

We are not sure about some of the CLC comments above.

We looked at schools very carefully for our daughter and stalked CLC for some 4 years. At first I was prepared to be sceptical as the ?Ladies? bit suggested flower arranging, but on our several visits we very much liked what we saw ? the girls seemed engaged and interested and we were impressed by the very high levels of science take-up. Our positive views were endorsed by grandma who was in tow. Grandma was a headmistress of a boarding school in the North of Ireland during the troubles and she knows more than most about the subject.

I understand they are refurbishing the accommodation on a rolling basis, but we didn?t actually have any problem with it as it was. The DD cared more about the people than the gloss on the accomodation. It didn?t occur to us to pick a different school on the basis of better accommodation and to us, the ?can do? attitude of the whole place was much more important.

DAQScot - agree completely that the people and the attitude are much more important than the accommodation - I was just trying to say that the ONLY thing I was aware SOME parents would like to see improved was some of the boarding accommodation. Having said that having visited many boarding schools (girls and boys and co-ed) i thought the CLC boarding houses were fine - certainly better than lots of the boys schools!
Did you send your DD to CLC in the end? (I love your comment too about the "ladies" bit as this worried me too..... but it really isn't a place to train in needlepoint!)

I too currently have/ have had daughters at CLC. I second the comments made by Copthall above - It has a great staff, constantly appraising what they are doing, and I really like the forward thinking approach to teaching and to life there -somewhat belied by the name which has dated rather, but the institution was conceived by a forward thinking woman many years ago - and my daughters have flourished, been challenged and succeeded both academically and socially.

My DD is at Wycombe Abbey. It is a wonderful school. Be careful listening to what some people say when they don't have first hand experience. The comments above re Asian girls are seriously wrong. They bring a huge amount to the make up of the school and there are many systems in place to make sure no one works too hard on academic work, but have a more balanced approach. I have heard so many rumours re WAS/CLC etc etc, but if possible take advice from those with current experience. My DD is very, very happy and we are seriously impressed with Wycombe.

thinking I have friends who have exerienced the bullying at WA , is there still the awful woman who is like something out of Bunty in charge of pastoral care for the first years, an old girl, who wears tweed and brogues? She decided that the way to deal with a bully was to move her into my friend's geeky DDs dorm because they were all happy in there and it "might rub off" except of course it didn't...

I was also completely disgusted when I went along for the interview with my DD's very westernised Chinese friend. The school has forged links with certain very hothouse Chinese schools and they clearly judged her in comparison with those particular types of applicants from China, instead of as an applicant, regardless of ethnicity, from an International School. They kept sending her off in a group with the Chinese pupils even though she doesn't speak Cantonese and as soon as the teacher's backs were turned they reverted to native tongue, having been coached to speak English in earshot. They may have fewer Chinese pupils (though it is top of the list of any status driven Chinese parent seeking a UK Boarding School for girls ) but they are not at all sensitive in the way they handle them, and so they will tend to stick together. The problem is that if you do not handle cultural difference sensitively you get tribes. The result was also that they missed out on a brilliant girl.

One of the reasons CLC is so popular with expats (and especially expat teachers) is that it is very good at integrating the pupils valuing different cultures (and different cultural experiences ) whilst also not tolerating any tribalism. Vicky Tuck the previous Head proactively sought the advice of expat teacher parents on the issue . Also seen as a more normal school experience, with pupils having to leave Boarding Houses and walk through town to school. I have known several DDs go there with different personality types and thrive. Also very responsive and proactive about bullying. I have experience of a few schools as a UK Guardian and it is where I would send my DDs (definitely not Benenden, feels like a place to cloister your princess DD away from the big bad world)

Copthallresident, the staff member you mentioned is no longer at WAS. There is also a fantastic new Head of the year 7 boarding. We have been very impressed so maybe change of staff, change of boarding culture.

We looked at both for DD. CLC was in sad condition and dorm accommodation for those doing GCSE afforded little space and lacked appropriate privacy. WA felt better at first glance but we got rather unpleasant vibes as the inspection progressed and on balance, the whole place came across as 2D and cold.

When I asked the girl showing us around if she'd chose WA again, she was adamant: "Absolutely not. I'd rather have gone to somewhere with a more rounded education."

Benenden was just OK but Downe was embarassingly poor.
We're both ex Public school (coed) and none of these schools measured up to our alma maters.

Petrasmumma just out of interest what didn't you like about Benenden and Downe. I haven't been there for a few years but I just wondered how they had changed?

My daughter is at Wycombe Abbey. She is bright and hard working but not sophisticated ,and is a kind and gentle soul. I love the fact that she has not changed in character and has been completely accepted for who she is- indeed her quirkiness is embraced.We feel that she is cherished and valued. We miss her every day, but feel that we have made the right decision. Incredibly hard working staff and outstanding teaching. If you feel that it is right for your girl then go for it.

My daughter has just been accepted to WA and is over the moon. Mrs Wilkinson was head at her current school; she did great things here, and I am sure will do at WA. My daughter can't wait to start... I'll miss her terribly though.

Congrats! My dd loves it and I really what I've seen of Mrs Wilkinson :)

*like what I've seen of Mrs Wilkinson :)

Trying to decide between both schools at 11 plus and get a current view if possible.

Is is possible to coast at CLC if you are a boarder? Can you get lost due to the large size if you are not an 'out there' character? Do the great exam results/value add represent a generally more able intake at 13 plus? How difficult is it to get in at 11? Do they take most that apply? Do you need to be above average?

How much more academic do you need to be at Wycombe (if this is the case)? Do they turn many away at 11? Just looking at the academics would you expect two children of equal ability to do as well at both schools?

How has Wycombe changed under the new head? I hear great things but what exactly has changed? Good schools Guide says the pressure cooker reputation is overdone? Is there much more pressure in the run up to GCSE and A'level at Wycombe? Is the teaching at equally good at both?

Grateful for any thoughts and opinions as we consider for 2016. Thanks.

Is it better to go in to both schools at 13 plus?

I think they are both really good schools. Re: 11+ vs 13+ entry point - are you at a prep that goes to 13? WA have a relatively high % leave after GCSEs (see GSG for their comments), CLC less so. I think a lot of it is down to 7years on one campus being quite claustrophobic and a number of girls are ready to try something else - be it day school or coed boarding. CLC seems more immune to this because it is not a campus.

I hear this more and more from friends with DDs that go to board at 11 - that their DDs are ready to move on after GCSEs. I also think CLC is slightly better set up in the 6th form - both years of the 6th form are in 6th form houses, whereas at WA I think it is only the 2nd year of 6th form. Could be another reason why girls get itchy feet.

Which school did you prefer? They have quite a different feel! I think CLC gets a broader intake vs WA which is more selective. I read on another thread they got >200 apply for 60 places at 11+ last year and expect more going forward, so yes, they do turn girls away would be my guess.

I have friends with DD at both schools - and they are all very happy. Seems hard to choose... (if you are lucky enough to have the choice!)

We like both for different reasons, I guess...

CLC seems very international and forward thinking. I do worry about the size and if our DD is in a lower set to start with about he chances of progression and performing to potential in exams?

WA, seems to have amazing value add and results. I would appear few drift there?

Both seem to have good pastoral care. Which has the better teaching? Or are both on a par? Is there any downside in being in a large school with a 20% day girl contingent? Do the day girls do better?

Chilledout if your DD is capable of entry to WA she won't be at the lower /middle end or struggle at CLC. In any case I think CLC haa particularly added value (as far as getting good exam results are concerned) for the middle / lower end of their intake. Apart from what has been mentioned CLC would be a better place for a DD who was likely to want to pursue art and probably music. If your DD is keen on dance or gymnastics or likely to like lacrosse then WA has been traditionally strong.
The accommodation and study areas at WA is n't really the best for particularly the year 11 cohort.
Generally my impression from what I have gleaned is that I would send a very bright, sporty girl to WA (but she may want to move for sixth form) but others would do probably better and be happier at CLC.

Hello, I would stay away from Wycombe Abbey as i have a friend whos daughter got bullied for two years and the school did nothing about it and tried to even pretend it never happened. Her daughter was forced to leave with severe emotional problems.

Got tbh gogashkanazi1 I find that really hard to believe. V tough line on bullying and as WAS is a small school you tend to know which girls leave part way through....and it's certainly not the bullied who leave IMHO.