Teachers can't help a Y8 DS 'make friends', can they? <long alert>

[LittenTree]

I am worried about DS1, almost 13. He appears to be unable to make friends.

Briefly we moved to be in catchment for this school so he started a new Y6 which went 'OK'. I knew he'd never be Mr Popularity but it was 'OK'. He had some mates at his previous primary (3 miles away), a girl, in particular, and he gets on like a house on fire with my 'best friend's DS, 13, when we see them but they live 3 hours drive away. So it's not like he can't make friends. (Note he has, apart from a bit of FB, lost contact with the other school friends apart from the girl, I'm mates with her mum).

Anyway, he went into the secondary which has intake from 6 feeder schools.

He talks about 'my friend this/that' about school but I don't know if these kids are really 'his friends' or just school fellows as none have ever darkened our door or the phone! He was invited to a (mass!) paintball party in Y7 by a DS who was new to the area altogether, but since then, there have be no invites apart from one boy who lives nearby (and who went to a different feeder, not that that's relevant); and he seems to only want to see my DS on his terms (he also does a lot of sport- DS does none!) so DS sees this lad every 2nd or 3rd w/e for a couple of hours, skateboarding. That is the extent of his social life. He does Scouts but not at a local troop but even there, he's known some of the boys since they were all 7 but hasn't formed any 'friendships' that go beyond Scouts. DS called me a month or so ago from school to ask if he could walk home with a few boys (it's 3 miles and a few do it every day). I said yes, so he did, he came in full of chat about what they'd done/seen etc; and on a family bike ride pointed out their precise route to us (i.e. was excited by it)- but either he's not been asked to join them again or hasn't mentioned to any of them he'd 'tag along' again.

DS2 is in Y6 and has just suddenly started going out with his mates, to the park after school (which is where he is right now!). In passing, this evening, I asked DS1 what he thought he might like to do for his 13th b/d (end of May). He more or less said 'Nothing'. Questioning (some of it quite direct!) reveals he's scared of being rejected by any invitees or that 'they won't be satisfied'. Aw! (I was thinking movies and Nandos for maybe 4 of them).

DH is not terribly social, either, and I feel this has handicapped him to an extent, and I don't want DS1 starting to feel lonely now the Y8 DCs will start heading into town/movies/swimming etc and he'll never be asked.

I see it as being partially his 'fault', tbh. There was a 3rd boy who DS1 knows who'd go skateboarding with him and the other boy. I said to DS 'You ought to get his mob. no. so you don't always have to arrange catch ups via the other boy'.. But did he? No.

It was suggested he joined FB which he has but the Y8 girls are rather scary and a bit cutting and sarcastic so DS doesn't dare post on there.

Now, after all that- my question:

Is there any point whatsoever in me approaching his tutor (a male PE teacher) to see if he can 'do' anything towards facilitating 'proper' friendships for DS?

Is there anything anyone other than him can do? Bear in mind I absolutely don't know any of his ex-Y6 mums.

I should add (oh no, there's more!) he's not 'odd' or geeky or particularly off-beat. His interests are like most non-sporty 12 year olds: computer games and computer games, plus a desire to do more skateboarding/stunt scootering but he wouldn't dream of heading to the local skate ramps alone (and it's not because of any 'rough' elements) to see who might be there.

I'm not sure if you might be projecting your ideas of how friendships should be, onto his situation, which is not necessarily the same. (I feel I can suggest this, as it's something I've done with my ds, whose 'friendships' are very different from my experience of 'friendships' ).
ds has plenty of school mates he is "friendly with", but I couldn't tell you from one month to the next who he'd say his 'best friends' are - they change, regularly. He too has differernt friends at Scouts (well, Explorers now) and friends from different things apart from school, but if I had to say...why don't you invite ? for a meal/sleepover / trip out / whatever, then I'd have no idea who he'd ask.
To me, this is odd. To him, it's having LOTS of friends.
Oh, and it's only now he's in Yr11 he's started going out to the cinema or into town or to the football with friends. In KS3, they are "too old" to have their Mums arrange things, but too young to be able to sort it out for themselves, so they don't tend to go out like that much. Not even for birthdays really.

I think this is normal with some boys tbh. DS1 nearly 15 is like is. He is a real homebody. In fact he said yesterday that DH had been discussing the prom for next year in form and I said oooh great and before I could say anymore he said he wasn't going .

Now DS2 who is yr7 is a different kettle of fish - makes friends with anyone.

He wil be ok. Do not approach the school.

Maybe the teacher can suggest some school clubs he might like. Chess? Computers? He would meet other students with similar interests then.

Not DH, bloody auto correct... They

Yes, try some other activities. I had very disrupted schooling and struggled to make friends there but made friends for life through the Young Archaeologists Club. He sounds a normal teenage bo but it wouldn't hurt to widen his opportunities to make friends, what is he interested in.

I don't see why you shouldn't speak to his form teacher, more to get his take on how your DS seems in school (initially) than to ask for help.

I have a DS the identical age. Pastoral care includes social issues, surely. That said, lots of teens go through quite solitary phases and I think it us pretty normal.

I have a 13 year old year 8 DS and agree with BackforGood. I think boys' friendships are very different from girls'.

Something which has torn my DS from his Xbox is Army Cadets. He loves it.

Hi everyone. Thanks so much for your replies. I must confess I was feeling quite 'down' about it yesterday evening. DS1 was also very quiet but I recognise he was quite tired and monosyllabic. Hi is approaching 13, after all! Also yes, I think I am projecting onto him, and girls friendships are different!

Anyway, he had said he didn't want to go out to Laser quest last night which was a pre-arranged with Scouts and paid for) but we insisted, if only because it needs a precise number to play and he'd be letting the others down. So he went, and, needless to say, appears to have had a good time. (Quick chat with him when he was in the bath afterwards.). Not sure how things are today as I am at work all day but DS2 doesn't head out with his mates of a weekend (yet) so at least they'll play well together.

I think I will just mention it to his Y8 teacher. It can't hurt, really, can it? He'll either say he can't do anything about it or will make suggestions.

13 year old boys are funny creatures. They can be mates with each other at school without wanting to hang out afterwards. Generally their friendships at that age are much less intense than girls', as you've said. A reckon don't force the issue, but just carry on giving him a prod every now and again.

Disclaimer: I don't have a teenage boy of my own but have know plenty!

Some people do not want to be mister popular.

I hade one friend at secondary school.

I was fine with that.

Oldest DS takes after me, and has never had many friends, he usually has the One Best Friend, and plays a lot with his brother, and seems fine with that. He likes to close the door of his room and play alone sometimez.

Other DS is life and soul of any party, makes friends easily, and seems to need to feel he belongs to a group.

People are different and I think it is important that you accept your DS for who he is, and do not make him feel like he is letting you down, or not fulfilling your expectations. It sounds like you have a good relationship with him and he would tell you if he were unhappy.

Leave him be, he has to learn about life.

Hello Littentree. I have been in a similar situation with DS1 who is now 19 with a fabulous social life,a girlfriend,close friends and acquaintances.

DS1was truly miserable aged 13 because of perceived rejection by his peers. I did go to the school to be told that the teachers " couldn't make him popular". That was a definite low point.

What I am not clear on from your post iis if your son is unhappy. If he isn't I would leave things be otherwise I think you might unwittingly make a temporary and typical situation into a bigger problem.

I think you are doing the right thing by being open to facilitating friendships and activities but stepping back from actively pushing things.
Good luck and try not to worry!

I have a son who is very similar. I did talk to the school and they were very helpful. Give his form tutor a call.

I wouldnt worry if you sometimes have to push him a little bit to actually do things. DS signed up for his first cadet camp then didnt want to go as he hadnt been before. I spoke to the Sergeant about this and he was very reassuring. In the end DS went and of course had a great time. Now he is talking about going for promotion!

Yes, I wouldn't say DS is 'unhappy' as such. I was a bit surprised that with some prodding he 'confessed' that he was scared of rejection rather than saying he felt just fine as he was, friendship-wise. It sort of implie dto me that he'd like more friends but doesn't either know how to encourage friendship or is scared of having his overtures rejected.

I think he was a bit down in general last night, deffo tired, and deffo nearly 13.... and I think the fact his little bro (who is also not 'Mr Popular' but does have a social circle) has quite recently started going out with his classmates to the park after school which perhaps exacerbates any feelings of social isolation DS1 harbours..

It is a funny age. They resist Mum organising for them, but are not very good at organising themselves.

DS1 (12) mopes around being bored until I actually suggest things/people for him to do/see. It also helps if I remind him on abotu thursday to start planning the weekend, otherwise he starts texting/phoning people on Saturday, only to find out that they're all busy!

Boys certainly do have different friendships to girls - they are much more fluid and casual IMHO, and based on shared interests - who has what game on the Xbox/ goes to which afterschool club etc. They seem to 'co-exist' in parallel, rather than actively doing stuff together!

I'm not sure about approaching school really. My son was asked to 'buddy up' last term with a boy who wasn't settling in very well, and in the end it all went rather sour, with said boy being quite unpleasant to DS!

I'm a form tutor to a year 9 group so a bit older but I think there are some pupils who are aware they are socially on the periphery of a group and realise that if they push it and start asking to be included in things that go on outside of school, they are risking rejection. However they are fine in school and hang out with other pupils normally; for whatever (historical) reason they have just not done the outside school stuff with other pupils and it would take something to change to make that happen, iyswim. Maybe they didn't go to the same primary so didn't know their new classmates' mums when they first met, and then were too shy to start going round other people's houses in year 7 and now aren't in that routine and feel it's too late to start. It depends what the form tutor is like but I would always be willing to at the very least keep an eye on relationships in the class to help a parent build up a picture of what was going on. Having said that we see them for one registration session a day - their English or Maths teachers see them far more so may be more useful.

I have the same patterm with my two DC - DS1 (14) does not have the same outgoing social style as DS2 (12), who joined a new school in September knowing no-one and is now constantly invited to sleepovers etc by numerous children.
Has anyone else noticed on this thread that there is a DS1/DS2 pattern? WOuld be interested to know if there are any with the opposite dynamic- ie popular DS1 and quieter DS2???
Personnally I would resist any interference (and especailly any comparison with DS2) - when I was 13 i also had trouble making friends/ sensing rejection if i tried to break inot a group etc, and it would have been fine execpt my parents were constantly asking me why I had no friends As I grew older I just became more sociable and now have many and good friends, so please don;t think if he is not 'Mr Popularuty' it will blight his life. My younger (!) bro, who WAS Mr Popularity and my parents constantly reminded me of it, actually suffered severe depression later life, so lots of friends as a teenager is not necessarily a recpe for a lovely life...

Hi, LittenTree. I would encourage the Scouts - it usually attracts the "nicer" (by that I mean kinder) sort of boy and they do a lot of fun things.

What about drama at school? Again, I know that the kids who are involved in the drama productions (at "T" - see I know where you mean!) are decent and not cliquey. Perhaps this would be something to mention to the tutor - I know I had a hell of a job to persuade ds to go to any clubs in the first place, and now he's glad he did.

I know how you feel about your ds's situation. Poor dd has no friends. She had one, but this girl for some reason is no longer speaking to her. Dd never goes to anyone's house to play. She doesn't seem hugely bothered, but it makes me for her all the same.

Hi gramercy I consider myself outed!

I will be honest re Thornden I'd say, had I known then what I know now, I would certainly not have rejected it (for the uninitiated, league table wise, this school is 'top' in Hants for Y7-to 11 comps) but I wonder whether Mountbatten might have been a better choice. I have a good friends whose DD (the one mentioned as being DS's mate in Y3-5 in Romsey) goes and I like what I hear.

The big ishoo is that, of all the clubs the DC can join at Th, we, as parents, hear nothing about them. It's entirely up to the DC to get involved in them, so what happens is the DC who are already playing an in-school instrument/ in drama/ doing organised sport are instantly amalgamated into the school groups; those among the shyer DC who just might show an interest are way less likely to get involved, unless mum weighs in (and if she even knows the club exists!) and who might strongly encourage DC to get involved don't get a look in. I mean, 50% of their intake are 11 year old boys, fgs! Do they not get it?!

fwiw, I bribed DS1 with promising an ipod for his 12th b/d if he joined the Y7-8 boys choir (he has a great voice but NO CONFIDENCE). He duly did but, it was 'on' maybe every 3rd week? If that. A good initial turn out dwindled to about 4, a term in, so DS1 quit, unsurprisingly....

Where we are there are music/performing arts schools run by the county music service so outside of school but using school facilities. My DDs aged 12 & 16 both attend. It sounds terribly po-faced but really isnt. The music service also runs a rock school on a Saturday afternoon. When they started both would probably have rather died than perform but now DD1 is a confident singer and guitar player, DD2 is a bassist and has started writing her own songs.

Clubs dont have to be school based and TBH I am pleased that all 3 of mine are doing something outside of school. It takes the pressure off school friendships.