I don't think private schools breed confidence ...

[CheesyWellingtons]

I keep reading on here, and hearing in life, that public schools breed confidence. I don't think it is anywhere near as simple as that.

Isn't what is happening at home so much more important? Isn't it that confident people who tend to do well with their careers and can therefore afford private education also have confident children due to the confident parents? Or that those with inherited money feel confident in life due to that, and then send their children privately? Surely so much of how our children feel about themselves is due to how we as their parents feel about ourselves.

I can think of so many people at my private school who were not confident.

One of the things that many private schools and some state schools do that really helps confidence is introducing certain social skills at a very young age - in infants. For example shaking hands well and looking the person you are shaking hands with in the eye. If you are able to start any meeting confidently with a firm handshake and looking the person in the eye you are half way there.
We can also do this for our children at home.

In my experience, the private schools build confidence through the compulsory drama.

DS1 and DD who went to private schools from reception class on wards did two shows every year, one with whole school participation and second that was either everyone in year two and below, or year three and above. DS3 went to a state school and did one performance in eight years. He is now at a private prep and has done two shows so far. His outward confidence has come on enormously.

I agree about the social skills - for example, the teachers sit and eat with the children at the private prep and at the senior schools we have looked at. Of course, it is also possible - essenial - to do that at home and probably in state schools too.

I think it is important to distinguish the inner confidence and outward confidence. I feel that what is happening at home matters a lot for self-esteem, whereas what goes on at school matters most for outward confidence.

In my professional life, I see that people with a certain background often have, by the age of 20, a confidence that - as one colleague from an inner-city state school background expressed it - can take twenty years post-university to develop.

I think it is the school home partnerhsip that fosters confidence, both inner and outer forms.

I make a huge effort to foster confidence and resilience in every way. This is absolutely at the heart of my parenting philosophy as I have found that it has the greatest impact on one's life. Far more so than raw intelligence.

School is fundemental in fostering confidence also. It is a huge part of their raison d'etre. Equally as important as academic studies. It happens every single day in small and large measure. And it happens purposefully and consciously.

Put both school and home together and I have uber confident DC.

I went to Oxford from a state comp, and was quite surprised at the lack of confidence of many of my new peers from the private schools. Not all of course, but Oxford did seem to be a hotbed of neuroses. Anorexia central. At least half my female friends had eating disorders. Sometimes I wonder if it's just the friends I pick... . Also the subjects I read, perhaps they attract the stressy overachievers. But I don't think it was just me, there were plenty of jokes about how the local psychiatric hospital got more firsts than the top college.

So though I certainly agree there's a type of public school confident gloss that some people have - David Cameron a prime example - there are many many private school kids who do not breeze merrily and confidently off to conquer the world.

"I also think the independents teach you to smooze and network to be perfectly honest and state schools on the whole don't."

"In my experience, the private schools build confidence through the compulsory drama."

"the general "because I'm worth it" factor of the premises and facilities."

"Being part of the 7% will give you that. You're better than the 93%.

"I suspect that a lot of this vaunted public school confidence is actually being comfortable around wealthy and powerful people-because that is a kind of confidence that will help you to get a job with wealthy and powerful people. The fact that the same person might feel shy and awkward around working class people is not seen as the same career drawback, so people tend to discount that."

I've never read such a load of stereotyped bunkum in my whole life!

I would call it 'arrogance' rather than confidence in a lot of situations.

I don't think public schools breed confidence, but I do think they can provide the appearance of confidence.

I think it depends a lot on the individual school - private OR state.

My dds do a lot of public speaking in their state primary, for example, and those kids are well known for being confident when talking to adults - mostly because they learn to expect respect.

I do think being in an environment where you are pretty much being told you are in an elite, directly or otherwise, is bound to produce a sort of confidence. Not necessarily the sort of confidence I want my children to have, though, or the sort to help you in personal relationships.

I do see some very confident, and lovely, young people around here (from the local private schools) and equally some overly entitled, arrogant, rude twits.

sairygamp I was brought up to believe that. That somehow thier confidence was wrong.

But you know what? I'd take arrogance any day of the week over life limiting lack of confidence. I've seen the latter cripple people.

I agree that some people are brought up to believe confidence is wrong. I was raised that way too. If my mum meets an articulate child who can speak to adults she says that they are attention seeking show-offs.

I think its often about the opportunities to take part in things etc.

My sons are in a prep with 13-15 boys in the class. If they do a class assembly everyone is going to have to stand up and speak a few lines. The same with school plays from Y2 (at the latest) everyone has a speaking part. There are small concerts where boys play solos from Y1. Everyone will be in a sports team and play matches against other schools.

You're just not allowed to be the shy/quiet one at the back.

I think private education makes a huge difference.

If all other factors are equal (home etc), I think the private school gives more confidence.

Debating clubs etc.

The right sorf of confidence seems to be rather subjective.

e.g.
MY dc are (naturally) confident, articulate and charming.
YOUR dc are over-entitled and arrogant.
THEIR dc are just overbearing and chippy.

etc.

State schools are starting to follow in the private schools footsteps when it comes to public speaking/debating.

Our local comp has a debating society that competes against independent schools.

For me the main advantage of private education is the small class sizes and being less constrained by all the box ticking. In other areas I don't really think there is such a difference anymore.

elibean
"I do think being in an environment where you are pretty much being told you are in an elite,directly or otherwise,"
Do you really think that is what goes in in independent schools? The pupils might think their school is the best or their boarding house and just like a child at a selctive state those at very selctive independent schools know that they've only got a place because their very bright but I do not think their is one independent school out there which tell its pupils directly or otherwise "you are in an elite."

Arrogance is when people treat you like a piece of dirt when they find you haven't been to the 'right' school, that happened to me a lot at my sixth form college, luckily I had the confidence to get over it. The majority of people I know who have been to fee paying schools do have a lot of confidence, with some it appears to be arrogance - although very shy people can equally come across like this. The most importan thing to me, wherever my children go to school, is that they are polite and well mannered.

I went to an independent school. It wrecked my self confidence. I felt very stupid most of the time and was painfully shy until I went to university. I don't blame the school particularly but I think they encouraged a lot of academic competition and I really struggled with that.

No, of course I don't think any schools would tell children they are in an elite - not directly, anyway!

I went to independent school, as did many of my friends, and I certainly always had a sense of being somehow privileged (though I was never quite clear on what that meant). They didn't have to tell me.

I also agree that state schools are picking out a lot of the good things about indies, like public speaking, these days.

And that lack of confidence can be as crippling as a distorted sense of self-importance. As I said, I think it depends a lot on the individual school, as well as (obviously) family and the individual kid.

Personally, I think a certain amount of self-confidence is a good thing - but I don't value the outward manifestation of it as much as some of my peers do. I do value self-awareness, and a positive attitude, though.

"Arrogance is when people treat you like a piece of dirt when they find you haven't been to the 'right' school,"
sairygamp is describing arrogance not confidence in fact I would say this is arrogance underpinned with lack of confidence; what I suspect is a general feeling of uncomfortableness when confronted by people who don't fit your view on life.
Interestingly I too have never been to the "right school" and although mix with many who have have never been treated like dirt by any of them I've always found that people are exceedingly civil.

Elibean "I certainly always had a sense of being somehow privileged"
I tell my DS he is privileged in the education he receives from his indie but not a privileged person there is a big difference.

Me neither.
I'm from poor as can be. Complete nouveau riche and DC and I have been accepted and welcomed by one and all.

It's the middle classes on the bones of their arses that get snippy. They love nothing better than to look down on you and sniff at your money and lack of class. Me, I'm weeping all the way to the bank...

I think snippy can be found in all walks of life, and can be due to a million different things...

No, HappyGardening, they are not the same, of course. I wasn't told anything, either way: I just absorbed the fact that I was in a minority - though it still came as a shock, once I left school, to discover how much of a minority. And I didn't go to one of the Big Famous Private Schools, just a smallish one in a well known university town.

All I said was that a certain amount of 'confidence' is likely to be absorbed by knowing - however vaguely - that one is in a tiny minority, and perhaps also by being in a cohort comprised mostly of kids who have a greater than average sense of entitlement (not using that as a negative word, just a neutral one).

Though I wouldn't think of it as real confidence, myself. It certainly didn't help me much later on. Luckily, I have grown-my-own confidence since - with a bit of help!

My parents have sod all confidence, and spent most of my school career telling me I didn't really deserve to be at that type of school (private), should always defer to others, etc.

I'm confident in some situations but not others - my various private schools did at least accustom me to amazing buildings and taking posh surroundings for granted and thus I wasn't intimidated by Cambridge interviews or later jobs in ancient government buildings. I also don't get intimidated by incredibly rich or famous people - but equally I've never picked up the ability to network with them, with a few exceptions who happened to be school friends from wealthy families.

Someone asked me recently why, if I went to public school and cambridge, why don't I have any mates in the government and media and other powerful positions? The answer is that the people who mostly are in those positions all stuck together, spent their time in the Union and other well-chosen activities, and while I know a couple dozen guys from Eton, they're all the geeks who didn't end up ruling the country.

Yet...

I suppose I would take arrogance over life limiting lack of confidence too. Not sure how helpful that is though. I'd also take being a bully over being bullied, for example. It's not as though if you're not one you must be the other!

But arrogance is in the eye of the beholder isn't it?

I'm a writer which means I must be supremely arrogant. I make stuff up and then expect people to pay for my mutterings.
NO one would ever do anyhting in the arts without that level of arrogance. The idea that you have something so worth saying they will pay to hear it.

And then the rejections that are part and parcel of it. The arrogance to think, actually, I don't care what that agent, editor, reviewer, critic thinks, I'm going to do my thing anyway.

The arts world is built around individuals with breathtaking arrogance.

Without that arrogance we wouldn't have anyhting from Van Gough to JKRowling.