What exactly is a 'pressurised' school?

[dignan]

DD has an offer from an independent school with a reputation for being pressurised. I'm not 100% sure i know what is meant by this phrase? Why can't a school achieve excellent results without being pressurised? Especially if they are, in theory, only accepting the creme de la creme?

My daughter will almost certainly be in the bottom 20% of the year but wouldn't and shouldn't she still receive an excellent education? Am i worrying for no reason....?

It usually denotes a school that the child of the person levelling the accusation hasn't got into.

Of course schools can achieve excellent results without being pressurised; the best schools do.

It depends who said it - if its a parent with a child at the school it probably means "way too much homework, little free time, teachers hassling the DC at the bottom of the class to do better, and those further up the class to do better still". If it's someone who doesn't have any actual link to the school, it may just be "gets good results, so must be as above" - might or might not actually be true though.

Some schools are pressurised, some aren't. Some are accused of being pressurised but aren't we you are there (its usually either sour grapes or an old view).
However if she is going to be in the bottom 20%, she may go through school thinking she is "thick" despite being very bright, it does happen. If a child is just going to scrape along I might think twice, however if they shine at something the school does well it might be a whole other story.

I'm now thinking i should just accept the offer from the school with the less 'academic' label - we like it (even though it doesn't have grounds and is a little cramped) and if she works hard she can do well there i'm sure. The trouble is that we like both schools but it's the fear of it going wrong for her that's making me think twice. DH is more of a gambling man though....

From my own very limited experience, I agree with Yellowtip re the labelling of a school as "pressurised". My DS attends a top independent school described by some as a pressurised environment (usually parents who have never looked around it) but he doesn't seem to feel presssurised - far from it. He does put himself under pressure to do well in exams, but it feels as if it's more about not losing face in the subjects he is considered to be good at by his peers, rather than pressure from the school.

I also feel that his school is remarkably chilled compared to the local top-performing comprehensive where children are constantly being given targets and then told if they are meeting or failing to meet them every term. They are also hothoused into taking some GCSEs in Y9 and many of my friends with children there complain that their children feel very stressed by the targets and the hothousing.

DS' school doesn't bother with targets at all - they just provide grades for levels and attainment in reports and leave it at that.

Of course it depends on your DD's personality and how competitive you feel the children/parents are likely to be there as in some respects this can be a significant source of pressure - it could depend on how DD might respond to that? If you like the school and they have offered DD a place it's more about how you perceive the environment and how you think your DD would respond to that. How does she feel about the two schools?

My DS spends about 2 hours a night doing homework. Each term 2 sets of tracking grades are published plus a End Of Term report. To some parents/children that may be too much pressure but as far as my DS is concerned there isn't any pressure beyond the usual to complete your homework and to put in a reasonable amount of effort.

Same here pushydad Our DDs have grades at the end of every half term and a written report at Xmas and July. They have accepted that is the way it is and just get on with it.

One of the private schools not far from here is known as pushy.
I have friends who have taken their children out due to the bitchiness between pupils
and others who did not put their children in
and other friends whose children are THRIVING there
it all depends on the character of the school and the character of your child and whether they mesh

IMO independent schools fall into two categories 'children who achieve are happy' and ' happy children will achieve'. You may feel that the first type of school could be described pressurised. Only you can decide if your child will thrive in a particular environment. Does your DD thrive on a challenge?

dignan I wonder whether (re-reading your OP) you mean will it harm her self-confidence being in the lower 20% ? Yes, maybe but she will be achieving way above what she might have done at any other school. Sorry to sound confusing, hope this helps. Is she a confident child to start off with? If not, then maybe this is not the way forward.

I like Lizcat's description

DS is at a highly selective school and thriving. However he describes some of his contemporaries as "anxious". The school has high expectations, which pose no problems to those who are happy and capable of taking them on board. Others, perhaps those who were pushed to get in, or whose own or parents' expectations are to perform well even amongst a very selected intake, might well feel pressured.

DD is at a school which is generally understood not to be a hothouse, and with a wider ability range. This has suited her. She is easily bothered by the girls who compare marks and brag about their achievements. Instead she has found her own focus and motivation, a real life skill. Because of the reduced emphasis on academic achievement there is lots of scope to artists, sports people, actors and musicians to shine.

It depends on the child. If a child cant find their own motivation they will almost certainly do better in a school that provides a greater degree of structured learning. If a child feels over-pressured in a highly competitive environment they may be in the wrong school.

Probably a bit like real life where I see DD in teaching or a caring profession. DS not.

Thanks for all your posts. I've been given further information from sources in the know and it sounds like they are taught far beyond the national curriculum and at great pace and those who can't keep up with the pace are miserable. If you get 80% in a class test you are told to retake it. If you don't immediately catch on in class you spend your lunch hour having it explained to you by the teacher. They don't do GCSE's they do IGCSE's as the norm. Sounds horrendous...I know plenty of extremely successful people who haven't been educated in this manner ...is it really necessary and at what price? I think i've made up my mind..

ye gods
you are well out of that one!

I'd like to see their outcomes at 35 .....

PushyDad, you have made my day. On another thread I was harshly criticised for giving my child 2 hours homework a night which I prep myself. I can't afford private/ Grammar school but want the best the same as everyone else. My dd is younger y3, but I try to make it alot of fun. Sorry to go off thread, but you have cheered me op immensely.

Some people thrive on pressure many I know work in jobs where literally life and death decisions have to be made in split seconds, they like the constant adrenaline buzz. Some children are the same they thrive on the constantly moving goal post, being frequently told your position in the class, regularly receiving performance related grades, knowing that you will lose your place in the ?top class? if you take your eye of the ball and the expectation that you will get A*?s in everything. Other would just curl up and die in that kind of environment and will achieve the same results in less pressurized atmosphere.
Its horses for courses.

Well done Dignan - that's a brave choice, but I'm sure you won't regret it. You've clearly got your priorities in the right place.

Dignan
I'm sure you will make the right decision for your dc. But I am intrigued by the information you have. How do you know your dd will be in the bottom 20%. Did the school provide you with this information? I don't know which school you are considering but I would assume that the school is rigorous in their selection procedure and your dd was offered a place because they believed she had the potential to thrive in the environment the school provides. I know my dc's at similar ages showed an ability that was far greater than mine was at that age and their capacity to learn/be interested in "stuff" was similarly in excess of mine. Ultimately you will know your child best...but my own experience has been that I have tended to underestimate my dc's intellectual capacity. But I have gone with the flow and have been to date pleasantly surprised even amazed by the progress made by dc's.

Ster11 - it's only a hunch but seeing as she's currently not in the top 50% of her junior school year then i assume she won't be at this highly selective school either. She's also an august birthday which so far has manifested itself in her maturing/developing later than others - understandably.
There is great kudos in her going to this school but i'm not so sure it's worth it. She is a very eloquent and confident girl and at the moment there are no problems with her self esteem and hopefully there wouldn't be in the future. I'm just put off by the prospect of her losing her childhood because she's shut in her room doing excessive amounts of homework at night, weekends and holidays. Seeing as the government are probably going to raise the retirement age to 98 i think she should be allowed to enjoy her childhood and not feel burnt out before she's even embarked on the next phase of her life. My friends think i am nuts for 'throwing' away this opportunity. I wish i had known it's reputation before then i would not have sat her for it and i wouldn't be agonising over it

Children are certainly capable of a lot, and the difference between pressure and enjoyable stretching is likely to depend on the individual child. it's just hard to see everything about your child that makes the difference.

I think a child at a pressurised school needs top quality support at home - full attention. I would be very concerned about a pressurised boarding school for that reason - that was what my dh went to at age 8 and IMO it broke something in him which has never recovered. It's actually the connection between extreme amounts of work and extreme amounts of reward in a bubble that worries me. Lots of boarding schools I'm sure will work children hard without pressuring them excessively though, IMO.

dignan I think it's always dangerous to listen to these stories. Often they're bred from envy.

If this is generally perceived to be a very good opportunity for your daughter, you may be throwing it away on the strength of ill-informed or misunderstood tittle tattle. It sounds to me as though she's your eldest?

How come you didn't investigate the school fully before entering her for the exam?

If I had listened to these tales then no child of mine would be at their current school and that would done them one of the the greatest disservices than I can conceive of.

dignan I think you should consider what yellowtip said in her last post carefully.

Maybe you should speak to the school, it could be the perfect learing enviroment for your DD, you cannot know how she will respond to the teaching methods in a highly academic school, but the school will know. They will have taught many kids with many different temperaments and will know exactly how to get the best from them, schools like this are all about results and the only way to achieve them is to ensure their pupils thrive. Did they interview her?

What does your DD think of the school?

Think hard before you throw away an opportunity for your DD without at least letting her have a shot at it.

One man's pressure is another man's high expectation.

I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people really struggle with small amounts of expectation. It weighs heavily on them. Consequently they avoid similar siuations for their DC.

I must admit though that I have never felt pressure or stress as a result of high expectation. Consequently, my DC are very robust too.
We all set ourselves very high goals...and if we don't achieve them then nothing lost.
If schools set high expectations then I am happy. DC too.
Better that than to protect yourself from failure by setting expectation low.

Also as others have said, speak to the school. There are always urban myths surrounding academic schools. I remember one Mum telling me a certain local prep school set spelling tests every night from reception. I mean really!!!!

halfrom

MN should have a forum for us 'pushy' parents so that we can share tips and experiences, free from posters telling us that we are being cruel to our children and preaching that children should be children etc etc :) How great would that be.

Good luck with the home tutoring.

Dignan
You are not nuts just considered! And you should be...You appear to have a remarkable confident daughter and it is important that you choose a school that she will be happy at.

Despite not being in the top 50% in her year she has been unfazed by sitting a difficult exam and going through an interview process which can be challenging. This in itself is a mega achievement.

The school report must have been very good and the school supportive of her application.

In the non pressurised environment of our prep school a child performing below 50% of the year group would have been gently steered away from sitting an exam for a school perceived as highly academic.
With regards to work.

My ds attends what is perceived as a highly selective pressurised school. Some days he does have a lot of work but its no different to the amount of work given at the schools his friends attend which are considered less pressurised. His weekends are generally free enough for his sporting endeavours and the playstation. He has the odd project at holidays but they are holidays and the work is really tiny in the scheme of things. My ds is self motivated and likes to do well especially in sport. I do not see him as missing out on his childhood because of the work he has to do.. What I do see at the school is that he is taught beyond passing exams and to appreciate the subjects he is learning in themselves. I have found myself introduced to areas which I would not have thought about by some of the work he has done. It appears to be an enriching situation for parents as well as the children. I would also point out that my involvement with his work is minimal, the only hassle is making sure is the kits are ready and laundered on a regular basis!
Your dd seems despite being the youngest, very together with a strong sense of self. I think her view should be very important in your decision process. How does she feel about the school? And more importantly how will she feel 10 years down the road if you turn down this offer because you think she may not be up to it or have a good time.

I think you have a very difficult decision but yellowtip is right. You should be careful and take great care with regards to the information you have received from people in the know. Also think back to the process involved in getting to this stage. How has your ds been throughout this whole process. That in itself will give you a pretty good guide to how she will be at at the school.
Good luck and I hope it all works out.

I think you know your own child and what will suit her far better than any school will, and that you should not worry about what other people perceive to be "best".

Think about the other school you are looking at and what you liked about it - if your gut reaction is that your daughter will be more happy, rounded and confident there, then go for it, and ignore people saying you are "throwing away an opportunity". If your daughter is not in the top 50% of her class at present, then a highly selective and acadmeically pressured school may not bring out the best in her. Its about personality as well as passing the test and being offered a place.