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Secondary education

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Original poster

Teachers - a conundrum!

28 replies

Multifacetediguana · 12/02/2012 19:40

Have been wondering about this lately. I am in my fifth year of teaching. A couple of years back I remember my deputy head, someone I respect and admire hugely, saying that if she was a young teacher she would seriously consider doing a masters as teaching was becoming a masters entry job and that such a qualification would be needed in order to compete with new teachers. It is a sentiment I have seen expressed elsewhere.

However, now i read that pgces are likely to be phased out and on the job training such as gtp (which I did) is more likely to be the route in in future, delivered by teaching schools (which my school is!)

So, is the masters idea old hat now? It is something I have considered but it would be very costly and not worthwhile if other academic routes are being devalued, no? Or am I missing something?

OP posts:
notnowImreading · 12/02/2012 20:06

All our 'young' teachers are doing their masters degrees. I haven't got one and have no intention of doing anything so boring, but I know that both those above me (I'm a hod, but those going for assistant head) and those coming up behind me are doing them. When we interviewed for second in dept, only one applicant didn't have/wasn't doing an MEd. I daresay it would be worth it. Some people even like it!

Original poster
Multifacetediguana · 12/02/2012 20:10

I feel the same way- I'd love to do one in my subject but think doing one in education could be a bit dull and all to do with data collection!

OP posts:
Letchladee · 12/02/2012 23:01

I have one. It was interesting to do, and I enjoyed it and I think it has made me a better teacher... but I don't think it has helped my career in any way, shape or form. That said, I'm a section leader (hod equivalent) and don't intend / want to go any higher as I only work part time and don't intend on working full time for a very long time (if ever again) and going any higher would require me to work full time.

When my DDs are older, I would like to do a Phd part time instead of going back to work full time.

TheFallenMadonna · 12/02/2012 23:12

I don't have one, and I don't have time to do one! I'm a HoD, and yes, it does seem to be what people are doing, both new teachers and those whose next step is SLT (so people like me I guess). But much as I love a bit of study, there's no way I could do my job and do an MEd as well.

MollyBroom · 12/02/2012 23:15

I don't have one although I do have 2 degrees. Lots of young teachers are doing them. I suspect I now have old gimmer status. My problem is that I would want to do a subject related one, rather than a teaching one - which I imagine would get me ahead in teaching. To be honest I don't really think not having one has held me back.

If people have done a teaching related MA what has it been on? Has it been dull?

noblegiraffe · 13/02/2012 00:05

A friend of mine is doing one at the moment. The essays he has had to write have been dull as anything. The one that particularly sticks in the mind as tedious was the one on 'Change Management'. He talks about quitting but has his eyes set on eventual headship so will probably see it through.

unitarian · 13/02/2012 00:37

If you're going to do one then do one in your subject area, not an M.Ed.

I did an M.A. mostly because I wanted to do it but the impetus that made me determined to do it was a new headteacher arriving in school and actually saying that he didn't think B.Eds were worth the paper they were written on. (He was hateful in other ways too.)
It was interesting how his attitude to me changed once I had started the course but by the time I had finished it I had a promotion lined up in another school. It definitely cut ice for me.

Original poster
Multifacetediguana · 13/02/2012 19:46

I already have first class MA hons as my first degree from a Scottish uni. So think it would have to be an mEd which does sound dull tbh!

OP posts:
Crew · 13/02/2012 20:13

The real issue is the need for graduate qualifications, let alone post graduate ones. Already, people with as few as two good GCSEs are getting good results and the trend away from expensive teachers is moving ahead very quickly.

Original poster
Multifacetediguana · 13/02/2012 20:21

Not sure I follow crew? What results are you referring to?

OP posts:
Crew · 13/02/2012 20:35

There are huge numbers of cover supervisors and HTLAs teaching classes and their results are no worse than those of teachers.

TheFallenMadonna · 13/02/2012 20:38

Really? Where did you find evidence for that?

Crew · 13/02/2012 21:01

You haven't noticed?

I've done a few covers as a cover supervisor, mostly teaching ICT which doesn't require much skill or knowledge. No money in it but it was something to do.

TheFallenMadonna · 13/02/2012 22:12

Oh. No, we have cover supervisors for whom I set work. If I didn't they'd soon let me know. They don't teach. And I wouldn't generalise from your experience of covering ICT to other subjects.

useyourloaf · 13/02/2012 22:21

I started one a couple of years back and didn't see it through. 8 years into teaching I certainly wouldn't see it as a way to remain competitve with new teachers. It's hard enough for teachers to get a post now whatever qualifications they've got especially if they are trying to get back into the "profession" after a career break. An MA, like experience, would make me less employable now rather than more as I'd be too expensive.

Things have changed a lot in last 2/3 years. Teachers are likely to become less academically qualified rather than more IMHO.

Sorry to be negative.

Olderbutnottoooldyetmum · 14/02/2012 13:49

I've been teaching for 26 years and have been HoD for the last 14 years. For anyone personally and professionally further study is always useful and I would say that one of the biggest differences between now and all those years ago is the number doing M.Ed(I'm in Scotland). I have to say to the poster above that I haven't seen any evidence of teachers becoming less qualified.

useyourloaf · 14/02/2012 14:35

what I mean is that TA's and cover supervisors are used in preference to supply teachers in many schools, so people without teaching qualifications (although I know several former teachers who are TA's) are filling a role that would have previously been filled by a teacher.

MollyBroom · 14/02/2012 14:39

Because of the shortage of jobs, it may be that cover supervisors are trained teachers. Ours are. TAs should not be taking lessons. In most cases they will be better of with a cover supervisor who knows the students. Our cover supervisors are different subject specialists as well and we try to match their specialism to the cover needed.

trixie123 · 14/02/2012 16:07

it depends what sort of school you want to teach in. At my private one a candidate with an MA / MSc in their subject would have an advantage (though would still need good pedagogical skill). At a state school they might prefer the masters in education.

Crew · 14/02/2012 20:36

There is an understanding that as a cover supervisor you are there to teach and that may be for the longer term. You may well be a qualified teacher - there's little demand for supply teachers so many cover supervisors do have QTS - but whatever you are called you must plan, teach and mark.

I cover lots of subjects, but the longest period was teaching ICT. I've taught English and Maths both as a teacher and a cover supervisor. Always the expectation is that you teach.

MollyBroom · 14/02/2012 20:40

Our teach in its simplest form. They never plan or mark. If needed a head of subject would do that if the actual teacher could not.

Crew · 14/02/2012 20:59

I find a lot of denial about what is happening. I know of someone appointed at 18 to teach ICT. I know a TA who effectively runs the department.

Mostly it's cover where this happens but it is gradually encroaching on the permanent roles too.

freerangeeggs · 15/02/2012 00:49

I started a Masters this year (MSc, not MEd. I already have an undergrad MA from Scottish uni) and this thread is somewhat depressing for me as I see other people have managed to keep up their studying whilst working, whereas I just couldn't and have had to withdraw :(

It cost me quite a lot of money too. What a waste. Quite gutted really.

But htf do people manage it? I work 8 - 6pm most days, travel for two hours per day and work at weekends. I'm exhausted. Doesn't everyone feel like this??

Fraktal · 15/02/2012 06:58

I recommend the OU modular MEd. the research module is probably dull unless you like research but the other modules have been very interesting so far.

They also do good CPD courses. I'm eyeing up the one on VLEs.

TheFallenMadonna · 15/02/2012 16:19

Our cover supervisors don't teach. I am HOD and I set work every time a cover supervisor is in my department. The work assumes no prior knowledge on the part of the person covering. They manage the class only. As do other covering teachers (rarely cover us a bit of a joke in my school...). The only time I don't do that is when we have long term supply teachers in, and then they are given time for planning.