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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

What does "it's a liberal school" mean to you?

59 replies

happygardening · 04/02/2012 18:04

Just that curious really by exactly what people mean by the term liberal school.
Is it no uniform and calling teachers by their first name or is there more to it than that. I take it it's not mixed dorms and sex on the croquet lawn.

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Colleger · 07/02/2012 18:04

I thought most schools did that too Mrs J?

grovel · 07/02/2012 18:13

If MrsJ is right then Eton is a liberal school.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 07/02/2012 18:22

From what I know of Eton (which is so little I don't even know why I'm typing), it's a v liberal school.

From what I know of Win College (which is quite a bit more than I know about Eton) I don't think it's liberal at all.

Colleger · 07/02/2012 18:24

Awaits HG....

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 07/02/2012 19:03

The true definition of a liberal school is one where the student calls the teacher by her first name during the day but calls her Mrs Robinson during sex.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 07/02/2012 19:05

drugs?

Colleger · 07/02/2012 19:40

Lol MrsJ!

grovel · 07/02/2012 21:08

Mrs J, lolol!

Original poster

happygardening · 08/02/2012 09:12

Dont you think that no uniform/or uniform policy not strictly applied, green hair piercings even calling teachers by their first names are just minor details and does not mean that under the surface a school is particularly liberal. Surely liberal means something else ok not orgies on the croquet lawn or gay sex in the showers but something in-between the minor details and full blown anarchy.

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Original poster

happygardening · 08/02/2012 09:44

MrsJ I'm interested that you state that liberal means "no hand-holding, no herding and no spoon-feeding, respecting of the individual" but go onto to state that Win Coll is in your view not liberal at all.
In my personal experience there is definitely "no hand-holding, no herding and no spoon-feeding" at Win Coll and the individual is very very much respected. It this difference of opinion that prompted this posting in the first place. A friend with a DS at a well known boarding school (not Bedales) does not think its particularly liberal and this is very contrary to many posting on MN by those who appear also to be in the know. I think this shows just how differently we perceive things. I would also like to add that as MrsJ I know you don't have a DS at Win Coll so you are in a less able position to comment than I and that any views you have on it are at the very best second hand and again are someone else's perceptions.
This just shows how difficult it is to get an opinion on a particular school by listening to other parents etc. At every school there will be hopefully a very small group of unhappy parents/children who are happy to voice their opinions loudly to all who will listen. Schools by there nature can't work for everyone. But this leaves parents in a very difficult position who do they turn to for advise: bland guides, headmasters who sit on the fence or should they have more faith in their own gut feelings?

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Original poster

happygardening · 08/02/2012 09:46

Meant to say:

At every school there will be hopefully only a very small group of unhappy parents/children but who are happy to voice their opinions loudly to all who will listen

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genug · 08/02/2012 11:06

It seems that both here and irl parents will differ in whether they judge a school by form or substance, and come to the conclusions they want to. Whether a school commits to a liberal education has nothing to do with how hip the PR is. DCs chose schools from ultra traditional to uber cool and they are all liberal.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 08/02/2012 14:08

Happygardening - The fact that I don't think Win Coll is liberal shouldn't make you feel uncomfortable. Being liberal isn't a good or bad thing, it's just a thing. We all look for different things in a school.

Original poster

happygardening · 08/02/2012 14:39

Don?t worry MrsJ it?s going to take a lot more than you to make me feel uncomfortable; curious where you've got this view from yes but uncomfortable no.

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lyonheart · 08/02/2012 19:28

Just out of interest, which schools do people think are liberal?

Charlotteperkins · 08/02/2012 19:51

In some ways my school was 'liberal'.

Didn't bother their arses with bullying.

Knew of pupils high on acid during lessons but didn't expel them.

Same goes for tolerance of fighting and sex between 13yos on trips.

During 1 trip the teachers took the 14/15yos to the pub to drink and ^had a go at me for not wanting to go^!

Original poster

happygardening · 08/02/2012 19:54

I'm still not sure that anyone has satisfactorily defined the term "liberal school". I think we would all agree that Summerhill is liberal but when it comes to others like Bedales I think that once you?ve cut away the calling teachers by their first names and no uniform etc its probably pretty similar to others. I just don?t see bread making and outdoor activities as liberal because it all part of a structured day.

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MadDash · 08/02/2012 20:02

The truth is very few people would go to a completely 'liberal' school, whereas a school with liberal features would be very popular.

I just don?t see bread making and outdoor activities as liberal because it all part of a structured day
Would you want your DC at a school that didn't have a structured day?

I believe that schools that operate through trust between all members of the school community is a pretty liberal ethos. As is non uniform and calling teachers by first names, but these features stem from the trust that they won't be abused.

With education being a lot more, dare I say, important (as in being a gateway to a good future)*nowadays, I don't think many parents would send exam aged children to a school like Summerhill, and that's why there are so few.

However that is just my opinion. Trust makes a school liberal for me.

*I only say this as DH left school with 1 A level and still got into uni which is something you'd be unable to do today.

yotty · 08/02/2012 22:08

I think 'liberal' can be interpreted 2 ways. Firstly, the anything goes, no uniform and calling teachers by their first names. Or secondly, my understanding of what WinColl mean by 'liberal' which is being a bit maverick when it comes to being told what the curriculum should be by the government, and encouraging the pupils to have open discussions in the classroom as opposed the being slaves to league tables and teaching to the test. Let's hope I am not disappointed if DS gets a place!

Original poster

happygardening · 09/02/2012 08:15

According to my dictionary Oxford Concise liberal has 6 meaning not all are completely applicable but include open minded, not strict, general broadening of the mind, favouring individual liberty.
One would hope all schools have a degree of liberality at least I would.

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volumnia · 09/02/2012 08:28

I think 'liberal' can be interpreted 2 ways

Surely what Winchester and other acknowledged excellent schools actually offer is a "liberal education" in the truest and best sense - a full cultural education which allows pupils access to the 'best that has been thought and said" and encourages pupils to take control of their own intellectual journeys. This is not the same 'liberal' that seems to be suggested in some of these commnets, where the writer means relatively unstructured and informal.

Original poster

happygardening · 09/02/2012 09:17

volumnia thank you you have managed to out express my feelings in a way that I seemed unable to do.
I applaud you definition:
"a full cultural education which allows pupils access to the 'best that has been thought and said" and encourages pupils to take control of their own intellectual journeys."
I have become increasingly unconvinced that just because there's no uniform, and children are allowed to die there hair green or even call teachers by their first names that its means its a liberal school. If this is the true definition of a liberal school then I suspect many labelled as liberal are indeed failing to comprehensively to make the grade but that schools like Winchester and a few others which may appear to outsiders not to be liberal are the front runners when looking for a liberal school.

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lyonheart · 09/02/2012 19:14

I don't think a school like Eton or Win Coll could be described as liberal as I feel a main factor of a liberal school is inclusiveness. IMO that rules out highly selective boys only schools.

Original poster

happygardening · 09/02/2012 21:47

I don?t accept that liberalness and inclusiveness necessary have to go together. If we accept volumnia's definition then you?re talking about an ethos that pervades regardless of whether your selective or not. Also nearly every independent school is selective to a certain degree so that would mean the hardly any are liberal in ethos.

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TheOriginalSteamingNit · 09/02/2012 21:50

But isn't the idea of 'the best that has been thought and said' quite old hat and small c conservative and elitist? Any decent university course in any academic subject would challenge Arnold's notion on that.

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