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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Taking GCSEs at 14, languages and the stupid English Baccalaureate!

73 replies

chipmunksex · 03/02/2012 21:07

My ds is 13, he is currently choosing his options for which two gcses he will take in the summer of 2013 when he will be 14.

Because of the need to have a modern foreign language, due to the stupid ebacc thing, he pretty much has to do French.

His teacher is not sure he is up to it and has told me he doesn't think he should take it, but this seems to mean that he has failed already at 13. As I'm told it's a bad idea for them to have a gap with languages as they forget everything.

He is a bright boy generally, it's heartbreaking for me to think that he will be seen to have not achieved a good standard of education, because of this one area.

Does anyone have any experience, advice, tips?

OP posts:

webwiz · 05/02/2012 20:11

I must admit my DCs have been at an advantage here Quattrocento as their school didn't actually ever get rid of the foreign language requirement at GCSE and so have a strong MFL department. It must be difficult for schools to suddenly up the number of students taking a subject without having the teaching staff in place. DS has a fabulous french teacher who taught both his sisters and I'm sure that makes a huge difference to my views on MFL.

smilesy · 05/02/2012 20:17

Quattrocento that is a bit harsh - the same could be said of any subject. Part of the problem with MFL at school is that it is constantly being moved up and down in "importance" in the curriculum, ie one minute it is a compulsory GCSE subject, one minute it isn't, then its part of the ebacc. Students really don't know whether to try / take it seriously or what!
I agree with the OP that taking a GCSE early when you are unlikely to do well is a nonsense but I suspect that schools have resorted to doing this with MFL to force reluctant year 9's to make an effort.

hocuspontas · 05/02/2012 20:24

Instead of forcing students to do an MFL GCSE there should be some sort of award at the end of KS3 to acknowledge a working level in a language. All children will have studied one or more languages for 3 years at secondary and seems quite a lot for those who aren't good at languages and would prefer to use their choices for subjects they are actually interested in.

GetDownNesbitt · 05/02/2012 20:35

Hocus, there is - you can do the FCSE. A friend teaches it, with much success, to Y9 pupils.

GnomeDePlume · 05/02/2012 20:37

I agree that schools dont exist to be measured but it is an obligation to be measured. The problem is when schools choose to slaveishly pursue the measure to the exclusion of all else. Dont be fooled, this is a choice schools make.

Parents need to be active in their relationship with the school. The school says a student must take a MFL. If it doesnt suit, say so and tell the school what your DC should be studying instead. This is where the student having a good behaviour, attitude and attendance record will pay dividends.

hocuspontas · 05/02/2012 20:38

Is it widely taught? Does it stand for Foundation something? Sounds good! Is it for students not taking the language further?

MigratingCoconuts · 05/02/2012 20:40

Dont be fooled

I'm not! I'm a secondary school teacher

Original poster

chipmunksex · 05/02/2012 20:42

I have absolutely no problem with the learning of mfl, I just have a problem with ds being pressured into taking his GCSE 2 years early when he is not ready for it.

OP posts:

GnomeDePlume · 05/02/2012 20:46

Sorry, coconuts what I was getting at was that it is the head of the school who chooses to pursue the measures, it isnt some mythical 'other'.

MigratingCoconuts · 05/02/2012 20:50

yes...I agree...driven by market forces based on the blunt tool that is league tables.

webwiz · 05/02/2012 20:53

Sorry chipmunks I think we've moved the thread off your point a bit - I completely agree with you that taking GCSEs 2 years early isn't helpful at all and a slightly ridiculous thing for your DSs school to be doing. I think I would be asking the school to justify why on earth they think this is a good idea.

MigratingCoconuts · 05/02/2012 21:00

yes..sorry

GnomeDePlume · 05/02/2012 21:03

Absolutely, webwiz, take it up with the school, OP. IME you do have to be active in your relationship with the school. You are allowed to ask questions, ask for things to be done differently. Many parents dont challenge and are quite passive so if you do challenge you may well find that the school is willing to change.

That has certainly been my experience.

mrswoodentop · 05/02/2012 21:10

Sadly a lot of the state schools around here are going down this route there have been quite a few MN threads about it.All these children doing GCSEs in one year and having to make decisions about there futures at earlier and earlier ages.Not sure of it's league tables or timetabling thatleads to this

Clary · 05/02/2012 21:43

OP that sounds like a bonkers system, I agree with others. Much better surely for your DS to take French in Yr 11 than yr 9 if he finds it hard.

My school where there are excellent MFL teachers by the way (not me as I am just a learner!) does FCSE with the yr 9s and it is a great idea, focuses them in a traditionally difficult year, plus gives them something to show to employers etc if they don't carry on with the MFL - look, I got a merit (or whatever) at F(oundation) CSE!

Fluffpuff · 15/02/2012 11:32

It is important to have a language gcse for some of the top unis especially if your child wants to do english lit. My daughter is predicted A*AA in her a levels but I think her poor grade in Spanish due to the atrocious teaching she received at her private school has meant she has not received as many offers as she thought she would. Probably less of a problem if you want to do other subjects. Latin is probably the most useful language to learn as it enables you to understand many other languages.

TalkinPeace2 · 15/02/2012 13:01

Taking exams early worked with the old modular system - because kids could keep retaking modules till they got the magical A*
But now that the vast majority of subjects are exams at the end of the course (like they were when we were at school) it is a VERY dangerous path.

Languages should only be taken early if the student speaks it naturally (bilingual etc)
Maths can be taken early as its a yes/no subject that those who "get" it can master early

but it sounds like OPs school is looking at the trees moving, not the wind blowing them

circular · 15/02/2012 13:30

DD1's school never stopped the MFL teaching. alhough it became not compulsory for most pathways.
She's currently in yr10 which is the first year who made their option choices knowing about the Ebacc. She chose Ebacc subject because she wanted to do them.
Unfortunately, French is being taught in mixed ability groups, containing many students that (to put it kindly) made bad choices.
At our recent parents evening we were advised that DD was doing 'really well' working at a B grade. When we asked WHY it was not A/A* we were told that because of the mixed ability groups, she was not teaching above a B/C standard!

sue52 · 15/02/2012 15:31

circular that's quite shocking. If I was told that, I would be having words with the head and if that got me nowhere, the school governors.

SecretSquirrels · 15/02/2012 16:34

I have a son in Year 11 just doing GCSEs and can I just whisper that you don't need "an aptitude" for languages to pass French GCSE.
The way French is taught and tested now is not like it used to be.
Actually it's not unusual for YeaR 10 classes to be mixed ability in none core subjects.
DS had always been in set 1 for everything and was shocked when he started geography GCSE in Year10 that there was a huge range of ability.

penguin73 · 15/02/2012 18:42

Our school has had a 2 year KS3 for a few years now and it is a disaster although nobody will admit it. Ours do some GCSEs in Y9 and 10 and the rest in Y11 (after a 2 year break from the subject!) and this is having an abysmal impact on languages and motivation amongst both staff and students. The pressure is horrendous thanks to missing a year's worth of study, those wanting to do AS don't have the depth of knowledge required as there is no chance to really learn about the language or have lost whatever they knew after a year off from it, and it is very much now a case of teach to the exam rather than teaching anything that would be useful in conversing with a native speaker. An absolutely ludicrous system, early entry should be avoided at all costs except for the most able who would otherwise be bored, but sadly many parents don't realise how flawed the system is until they are stuck in it.

happilyconfused · 15/02/2012 19:06

Kids will not get an Ebacc certificate as it does not exist. It has not formed part of any university offer. There is still an argument about whether RS should be in alongside History and Geog. A child does not have to take French / German / or Spanish they could take Latin. I think it is great for students to take a lamguage at GCSE level but MFL classes can be hellish when populated with kids who are only there because the school and their parents have told them to be there.

Maybe the term 'GCSE options' should be changed as students do not really have a choice. In most schools they have to do Maths, Eng Lang, Eng Lit, at least Double if not Triple science and ICT. Should MFL be added to the list? If so they will be able to choose two 'options' if they are lucky.

Any student starting GCSEs this Sept will not have the opportunity to sit an exam module in Nov and May of Year 10 as they have to take all exams in Year 11. If your school forces a student to take exams early be careful to make sure you are not then charged any re-sit fees.

It will be interesting to see if maths and science grades remain high - we could see a return to B/C being the norm not A/A*.

circular · 16/02/2012 13:38

Sue52 - Yes it is shocking.
There is meant to be some extra out of hours classes for those capable of A/A* but these have not materialized yet.
Hope DD has the time to attend, although it's unfair when it should be taught in the lesson.
DD hates me complaining. It took a year to get anywhere with the English dept.
Issues with Geography also.

Real problem is school considering B/C to be good. And no incentive to help to acheive any higher with the league tables as they are.

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