Waiting Lists - Grammar Schools

[mumwithtwokids]

Just wanted to know if anyone can shed some light on the whole waiting list situation. Is there much movement? Also if for example 500 children pass the entrance exam, is the entire list passed to the LEA in rank order, or is there a cut off point e.g. only the first 300 are put forward?

Thanks!

Thanks for encouragement..... My thought, Animula, is that a 3 out of 3 pass rate would tend to suggest that he isn't just borderline passing but passing well - but I may be sadly deluded. I guess only time will tell whether having done six months worth of practice papers with him at home (which we considered adequate) will give him an equal chance with those who have been to prep schools and/or have been heavily and long-term tutored.

Yes, it sounds as if the letters have changed considerably - when did your DS do the exams? It was a "your son has passed" letter but there was absolutely no indication of whether they had just passed or done really well. Think the one school that has a more transparent approach indicated to those who failed, how many points they failed by.

We will ask our Head tomorrow!

Actually, does anyone know if Wallington disclosed how many children took the test and passed? Wilson's did this as our DS didn't pass so wonder if those who didn't pass Wallington were told.

I am pretty sure we emailed (after we'd got the pass letter) to ask and that part of the email was totally ignored!

Will ask some of friends though because quite a few of DSs friends didn't pass

Oh well, still don't understand why they won't disclose this info. If anyone knows please do share as I'm intrigued.

Maybe it's how they interpret the guidelines they are given?

Hi Gazza

Here are 2011 entry figures, in broad outline, as promised. Not going to out myself and say where!

1500 took the test
400 passed it
Of those 400, 200 were offered a place at a higher preference school. We don't know what that higher pref. school was, but safe to assume that it was another grammar school in most instances.
We have 120 places
Therefore, 80 on waiting list on offer day.
Hovever, 10 extra children went on the W/L after offer day.
From the original list of children offered a place, 24 declined the offer.
And please bear in mind that not everyone who is offered a place off the waiting list accepts it.

No reason to suppose that figures for 2012E will be significantly different.

Thank you so much for your information - very interesting. So it kind of looks as if the odds of getting a place are significantly higher than one might at first assume!

I guess people opt back onto the bandwagon when they discover that DS or DD has got a higher pass result (and therefore better chance of getting a place) than they might have first assumed?

OK - feeling a tad more positive :) But still really nervous too!!

Maybe so, Gazza, but it's a bloody nuisance and very frustrating for those people on the waiting list who see their place slip back.

It's either the resort of the terminally indecisive, or of those people who don't understand how the CAF works (ie that you get the highest preference school for which your child is eligible)

Well yes, I can totally see that it is to all concerned! From your figures it seems as if it could really make all the difference - does it usually turn out to be the case that those that do join the waiting list are quite close to the top - I would only think that there would be value in joining a waiting list if you thought your child stood a reasonable chance of gaining a place from the waiting list?

And is it usually roughly the same number of children who decline a place? It's quite high really - assuming they are usually absorbed into the private system???

Thanks for all your information - it's very much appreciated! Illluminating although I think some of our friends are getting fed up with the constant updates

You're right - it does tend to be highly ranked kids who go on the W/L after 1st March.

And yes, decline rate much of a muchness year on year. Don't forget that some of those who decline the offer are not doing it straight away, but later on in the process, because they've had a waiting list offer from their preferred grammar, because someone there has accepted an indy place.

So 1 person going indy a bit later on can have repercussions at several schools.

I'm waiting in a similar boat.

Dd has passed, 218 have passed and there are 180 places. Here the places are offered on a distance to school basis. Where we live is pretty much the cut off most years to get in, so 50/50 if she gets a place. Though this year less have passed than most years. And people don't turn down places for this school, I think according to their figures one person in the last six years has turned down an offer. The next few weeks will drag.

That sounds jolly indecent and contravenes all sense of fair play that we Brits have relied on for centuries (doffing school cap!). How outrageous but I guess that each grammar wants the creme de la creme. That is effectively poaching. Know the private schools do it but they can use financial incentives to enhance the process!

So in an ideal world (in my dreams!!!!)say my son came in top 100 for first choice school and automatically gets offered a place, if he has done equally well in choices 2/3/4 (for arguments sake), they effectively may still send us a letter to actively encourage us to reconsider (i.e. go on their waiting lists with virtually a guaranteed place if it becomes available)???? Is there no moral code any more....

That kind of makes a mockery of all this sticking to the rules in imparting information before 1st March!

Oh dear, yes, and I get where you are coming from on the levels achieved! Oh dear gone back to feeling gloomy about options again.....

And the information about the extra school choices is interesting too (although equally depressing).

Yes, I totally understand about the variables at play which can change year on year.....But still trends do tend to occur....

The news about passing for just one and getting a place though is encouraging for those of my friends whose DSs are holding out for Tiffin having passed none of the others....

As Blu or Animula stated "it ain't over till the fat lady sings" and I guess she won't just be singing an aria but a whole opera single-handedly! Yikes....

The other thing is that it mucks around with people's minds giving them one choice and then another tantalising one (or even more!). We actually prefer 2nd choice GS to 1st choice one and if in one million years we were lucky enough to be offered 1st but discovered he'd done very well on choice 2, we would be very torn.... And as you so rightly pointed out that causes a very nasty ripple effect......

From the Wilson's website:
"You will find out at the end of October whether your son has passed the test. If he has, you will not, at any stage, be provided with his mark. We only provide details of marks achieved to candidates who fail the test. Please note that, because of oversubscription, not all who pass the test can be made an offer."
So if you pass, you will be kept in the dark. Wouldn't it make more sense to shed some light on those who have passed and therefore are still considering naming the school in the CAF? Sigh! We will be going through all this in a year's time!

Probably a silly question Gazza, but if you prefer 2nd choice GS over 1st choice GS, why did you put it second?

I'm really not having a dig, just interested.

Did you find out some new information after the CAF had gone in?

Well DS really, really was sold on 1st choice one and we didn't know outcome of 11+ exam for 2nd choice at time of CAF submission and wanted to go with the known rather than the unknown. DS still loves 1st choice option but receptive to 2nd choice too! 2nd choice is just easier to get to (one bus journey virtually door to door) and only about 20 - 30 minute commute rather than up to one hour! Does that make sense, Lambbone?

No, we weren't party to any new information - just general feeling. Think that in all that summer/early autumn madness with revision, open days/evenings, exams etc...by the time it came to making the decisions we had virtually lost the will to live. The four month wait twixt submission of CAFs and Offers Day gives one a lot of time to mull over options.....

Well of DSs' friends only one applied to all four but you are right that suddenly being able to list four rather than two makes a significant difference and could totally skew the results particularly for those out of Borough!

I believe Tiffin exam has been brought forward to Sept 27 2012.

It will be a bit of a bun fight fitting so much revision over summer hols and doing exams at the same time as having to look round non-selective schools etc.....might make some aspects easier and some a lot more pressured and tiring....(sigh)

Yes gazzalw, also Tiffin exam only three days after Wilson's. What a start to Year 6.

So, I've just read somewhere else that 480 boys have passed the Wallington exam this year. I'm really confused as we asked for this info but they wouldn't disclose. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Also wonder how many boys took the test.....?

How come the odds of getting a place at Wilson's (even though the 3rd best ranked state secondary in the country this year) seem better than for the other Sutton grammars?

Maybe it's based on last year's figures????