Day-release at College for borderine C/D pupil Y10+Y11?

[CardyMow]

For the school's benefit for league table purposes or for the individual child's benefit? My DD is currently in Y9 and being pushed towards this, I only have the information being relayed through her atm (not altogether reliable, as she has HFA).

DD has told me that it is to 'give them a chance to try out the college course and see if it is right for them'. But it means doing either 2 days at college and 3 at school, or 3 at college and 2 at school. And by the sounds of it, it won't even have a recognised qualification at the end of it.

IMO, traditional GCSE's would give DD slightly more of a 'fall-back' option than a course with no qualification. I would rather she gained 7 C/D grade GCSE's and 1 A/B grade in Catering GCSE than 4 C/D grade GCSE's with a college course with no recognised qualification at the end of it.

I have an opportunity to discuss this with her teachers on the Options evening on the 1st February, but I would like to go in armed with all the facts, so to speak, as I won't get much of a chance to discuss this really, with 270 parents there!

I think the school are just doing this to minimise the 'risk' of DD (and the other bottom-set pupils) getting D's, or not acheiving a C in Maths and English, and it showing in their league table results. It is an 'outstanding; school, with the best 5 A-C results including Maths and English, for all the Comprehensives in our town. Also, they are going through the Academy Conversion process, and DD's year group will be the first that the GCSE results for the year group go on the league tables under the Academy Status IYSWIM, and I'm wondering if that has any bearing on why they are trying to get the entire bottom set to do this this year, when they haven't in previous years.

Also, how could they offer a Catering course at the local 16+ college (where DD has been told it would be) for 14/15yo's in Y10 and Y11? Wouldn't that affect their insurance?

What I am asking, I guess, is whether this is in DD's best interests, or the school's?

I would suspect the same as you and that they were trying to keep their A*-C percentage high.

If your dd interested in catering at all?

Is her choice basically GCSE catering or the catering course?

Like you I would probably go for the GCSE option.

Thing is, the catering course at college doesn't give you a qualification at the end of it - it's basically a time-waster IMO. I would MUCH rather DD did traditional GCSE's and got C/D grades, then went on to college to do her PROPER catering course. She will definately get an A/B in Catering GCSE, and C/D grades in most of her others except maths where she will be lucky to scrape an E/F.

I think it is purely for the school's benefit, as DD would STILL have to go back to the college post 16 in order to get her PROPER catering qualifications. What is the point, other than making the school's league table results look better? Can anyone give me any other reason why they would be putting someone on day-release at college on a non-accredited course? Because if it is just for their poxy league tables, then I will INSIST that DD does traditional GCSE's.

We do it for the pupil's benefit. It can be really enlightening for them to discover there is something they love learning about, and can sometimes have knock on effects on their engagement at the maths/science/english they still do at school. We don't have many students on a mixed college/school pathway - probably less than 15/year but they all really seem to enjoy it and do seem to be better at school on the days they are in. doesn't help our league table positions at all - the opposite actually as because they are out of school 2 days it could reduce the chance of them gaining 5 A-Cs, as the college qualifications don't count for the league tables.

But what if it is a non-accredited course, that she will have to repeat the work afterwards to gain the actual qualification that she needs/wants? Is it good for the child then?

She already KNOWS she wants to do catering, she has been to view the catering dept at the college on an open day, she loves cooking. (In fact, she made red velvet cupcakes in Tech yesterday when the rest of her class were making plain fairy cakes. And vair delicious they were too...). Surely if she does the work in Y10 and Y11, but gets no qualification for it, and then has to repeat the SAME work for the following two years, she will be as bored as sin? It's not like she can get straight onto the patisserie course she wants to do without the college catering QUALIFICATION first, so, really, won't it be a waste of time?

I'm concerned about the way the school are pushing this route with the 'hard sell' to her entire SET, too. They have been 'bigging up' the plus points of taking this route (less work, get to be out of school 2/3 days a week, get treated like grown-ups, get to wear their own clothes when they are at college) without explaining to the children how it will be limiting their employment options in the future. And all before they have spoken to the parents at the options open evening on the 1st Feb. THAT concerns me greatly.

I think they have sold DD on it, without explaining ANY of the pitfalls, meaning that I'm now going to have massive rows if I need to try to persuade DD that it's not the right thing for HER to do!

It's absolutely not for the league tables. If she's not going to get 5A-C then college or otherwise it will affect the league tables.

If she is a solid D grade student then chances are she is going to get very demotivated in the run-up to GCSEs when all the focus is on aiming for a C that is beyond her grasp. I've taught plenty of E/F grade maths students who by the end of Y11 are thoroughly fed-up of school. A couple of days out a week to do something they enjoy and can succeed at makes a big difference to their attitude.

Also, it might not lead to an accredited qualification, but that doesn't make it useless. The experience will count for something.

I do think options is a child's first chance to stamp their identity on their education. There does seem to be a lot of you in your postings. What does your daughter think?

The core subjects she will follow anyway and for a LA it will be good for her self esteem if the one thing she is really good at, she is doing.

My daughter is C/D borderline and the work she has had to put in is incredible. Last year she missed a C grade history by 2%. Hundreds of hours of work, actually for what in terms of employment prospects? It's very demoralising. I'm sure the school is looking at what is best for her.

But then why can't my DD do an accredited catering course at college? Apparently the only accredited courses she can do are Hair and Beauty or Mechanics. Neither of which she is remotely interested in. That's what I don't understand. Why only those two courses gain a qualification. She KNOWS what she is good at, she has very firm plans about what she wants to do. I can see your point about the maths, especially as she is likely to only get E/F in that, but most of her other lessons she could get a C/D.

What is wrong with my DD working hard to get C's and D's at GCSE, and then going to do an accredited catering course at college after her GCSE's? I would rather DD spent 2 years learning HOW to work hard to try to get a better grade, even if she doesn't get C's, than basically dossed for half the week on a practically pointless college course.

It's NOT just about me, but the bare fact is that she has asd, and I am trying to make it possible for her to get a job when she has finished her education, rather than being dependent on benefits for her whole life. Because there will be VERY few environments that she will COPE with working in, due to her asd.

I'm wondering if it has something to do with the fact that she will need the input of an LSA to get the C/D grades, and the school seem to have got rid of them all this year, since they started the Academy process?

Colleges can take students from 14 so no problem with the insurance.

It seems very odd that there would be no qualification, it might not count as GCSEs, it could be something like city and guilds and should at least have food hygeine certificate.

Lots of schools send students to FE colleges for vocational courses, check ith the school that there isn't a qualification.

There is also the possibility of the catering course being a two year course if taught full time, dd will only be able to do the first year s part time, but that means she would be able to study the second year after school.

You have to talk to the school.

Regarding the Academy status which you are linking with lack
of TA help, as of there is some sort of conspiracy going on. It's far more likely the link in events is........currently LA control......Government reducing funding.......lower numbers of TAs........concern over funding getting worse........consideration as to whether funding would be better as an Academy......consider Academy status.

I agree, the school will have got rid of TAs since the government massively cut the school's budget. Because of the massive shortfall in funding they'll have then gone the academy route. That's what happened at my school.

As you only have information via your DD at the moment, I would suggest that you talk to the school and get proper information about the course and ask them about possible accreditation.

She should get something for the course, if only an ASDAN or similar. My DCs school does this, but actually for most of the courses it is highly competetive to get on the college courses (the Sports one is massively over subscribed). The only other college course is the one for totally disaffected youngsters, which ties to remotivate then with practical skills.
I would suggest you request to talk both to the school and the college for more information.

hunty, i honestly don't think the school are pushing this onto your dd for their benefit - there isn't any for the school, though you could just possibly say less disaffected youngsters in mon/thurs (or whatever your college days are).
It really is for the students benefit - to interest them, inspire them, give them some feeling of automy and the workplace

HuntyCat, I really sympathise with you as I am facing a very similar frustration. For my DS the school is also pushing to change GCSE choices because of his Asperger. I feel that the school didn't do enough to help my DS so I find it hard trusting them. Maybe significant part of your worries is due to this lack of trust too. The school is put you in front of a very confusing, unexpected choice. You have every right to question it. You need to be at peace, comfortable with the decision and reaching this state is very important in its own right. That's how I feel about our situation.

I think you should ask the for a private meeting with the SENCO and maybe the head teacher, at school and at the college. Don't accept having just a minute in between 270 parents. They withdrawn the LSA support, they put your daughter in this situation, you have the right to demand explanations, they owe you this time. Ask them all the questions that bother you, ask for alternative options, accredited courses etc. Ask what the college could do for your DD.
When you submit those options you should feel that you did the right thing in the best interest of your daughter.

HisMum4Now has hit the nail on the head. I just want to know that I have done the right thing, in the best interests of my DD. I don't care if that isn't what's best, or cheapest for the school.