What would you choose? Top private school or superselective grammar?

[goldieandthreebears]

Here is my dilema:
My very academic 10 year old DD (my eldest of 3) has just gone through the horror of 11+ and sailed through.
Back in September she got top marks in a super-selective grammar school so it is highly possible that she will get an offer from that school on 1st March.
Last week she sat a top academic girls private school and has been offered an academic scholarship (a reduction of the fees by 10%).
DH and I are both professionals working in the public sector,so although we are by no means struggling it would be quite difficult to send all 3 of our children to private secondary schools.
My DD is extremely hard workind and she would be fine in both schools. She is also very sporty and a good musician and both schools cater for these. However, the private school is a 10 minute bike ride from home whereas the grammar school would be a 45 minute journey.This worries me slightly as she is generally very busy in the evenings with her competitive sports club. What would you do?

A big salary can be overvalued. I've never particularly emphasized the correlation between educational success and earning capacity with my DC. I understand the need for security but not particularly a quest for wealth in itself. I want mine to have the best schooling that my circumstances and their ability allows but as for their future employment: whatever is likely to make them most content - that may well not find that simply by opting for a super lucrative field.

It's only money.

I see that OP and her DH are in the public sector. With David Cameron talking about pay cuts and redundancies in that sector, I would be reluctant to advise signing up for school fees when there is a state grammar on offer. 45 minutes is not a long journey for a secondary school pupil. Also private schools tend to have a longer school day which would take time away from out of school activities.

So many messages, thank you! Although both DH and I are in the public sector our jobs are relatively safe and potentially DH's income may increase in the future.
Before I knew about the academic scholarship I was certain that the grammar school was were I wanted my DD to go. We only sat the private school exams as a back up plan. Now I wonder, if she did so well that a top private school are offering her this, am I being unfair to her if I don't give her the opportunity?
On the other hand I also wonder if she is on an academic scholarship will she always be under pressure to be at the top? I would hate it if for the next 5 years she was stressing about every exam and every test because she would be expected to achieve 100%.

At a superselective you're likely to find handfuls of other students in each cohort who've turned such scholarships down and it sounds as if it might well be healthier for your DD to be more part of the crowd.

I know of lots of students at Grammar's who have turned down scholarships. The private schools offer the scholarships to try to get the brightest pupils, who otherwise might be creamed off by the grammars. In fact if it is just a scholarship, and not a bursary too, they may offer it to even relatively wealthy parents. My niece went to a grammar (not super-selective) and other girls had Rolex watches etc, so their parents could have afforded private (which was cheaper even a few years ago), but preferred the grammar.

Grammar school. You will have to find fees for the next 7years and your circumstances might change. Imagine the horror if you had to take her away.

Name-change, start a new thread, and name the schools. Not all superselectives are the same, and the definition of "top academic" can also vary!

My DD attends a grammar and we turned down a scholarship (20%) at a leading girls school. A lot of girls and boys at her state primary applied to private schools as insurance. This way she gets all the perks (good holidays, a horse, dance, music lessons and the rest) and we don't feel squeezed about finding 7 years of school fees. We are sending her to a private school for 6th form but that's 2 years of fees as opposed to the standard 7, which even with a scholarship, would have meant cutting back a bit.

Just a thought I had that might be worth bearing in mind

I don't know if all grammar schools do this, but when we received the induction pack after my ds was offered a place at a super selective grammar school, there was a letter in there asking parents to consider donating a fairly substantial amount of money to the school. The letter stated that they were aware that some students will have turned down places at fee paying schools, so those parents in particular might want to donate something every year.

We couldn't afford to donate the full amount that was asked for, but we did give some and will continue to do so over the next few years because it goes towards facilities for the students.

So I just thought you might like to know that Goldie, grammar education does seem to cost more than a comprehensive education would cost, at our school at least, even though it would be less than private.

I think you need to look at this from the point of view of all of your children. The eldest has got into the grammar which is likely to provide a rigorous and challenging education which is probably on a par with the independent school and if there are a few gaps you will have the spare cash to plug them.

I think you need to think carefully about whether your other children are also likely to be in the same position in a few years and be chosing between two super selective schools. If that is not the case you need to consider what their options are and whether you and they would find them acceptable. It may be that you will need to keep your cash in reserve in case the younger ones do not end up in the same position as the eldest.

DD1 is in Year 8 at a superselective grammar (Essex) with a similar-length commute to that described by the OP. We could probably stretch to one set of school fees but not for all our children, not that we would choose that route anyway as staunch state-school supporters. Anyway, she is stretched and loves her school, comes home full of her lessons every day and is very happy. She says that even the brightest girls are not bored. We are very hopeful that DD2 will do as well on the eleven-plus and go there as well. While most of the girls there are not from poor families, and some are quite well off, there is a wide diversity at least ethnically.

I would choose the private school as it is nearer and if she is very bright you can probably push up the scholarship offer. an extra hour and ten minutes travelling a day is a lot of she has high after school commitments as you've indicated. It is hard to do homework whilst commuting.

I wouldn't over think the providing for two other sets of fees. Every child is different and that school may not be suitable for your younger ones. I know families where some dcs are at private schools and others at state. Dcs choice on which school they wanted to go to. It hasn't caused any friction between the children and they are happy at their schools.

Goldie another important consideratio is whether DD's personality type is suited to being a "scholar" through school. My DS is at a selective independent school with up to 10 academic scholarships in each year. From what I've seen life can be tough for these boys for various reasons. The school is generally laid back and academic pressure barely perceptible, despite excellent results.

However, a list of scholars is published so all the boys know who is supposed to be brightest - this inevitably leads to the scholarship boys feeling they have to come top in everything and putting themselves under pressure to do so. There are often snippy comments - according to DS - when a scholarship boy gets only average scores in tests. It is also becoming clear as DS progresses through school that some boys overtake the "scholars" academically as they peak later rather than showinf full potential at 11. This can be hard to deal with psychologically for a sensistive child I imagine.

Am not trying to put you off, I just think that it's worth considering how your DD would handle these pressures.

OP talks about a superselective so that sounds to me as if she is not in a normal-Grammar school area i.e. the State option is not a choice between Grammar or Sec Mod.
What's your local Comprehensive like, goldie?

I wouldn't pay for just one DC to go private, unless there were v strong reasons, and would not in OP's situation where dd1 has an excellent state option. Think it'd unfair on the other DC, presume their options if fees unaffordable would be pass the superselective exam (hard) or comprehensive.

I would only send Dc1 private if felt chances were v good that we could stretch to fees for the others.

10% or even 20% discount would not be enough to make a financial difference if considering paying three sets of fees.

Iusetoomuchkitchenroll We have never had similar demands for money from our DD1's superselective Grammar school. They do want us to pay what I consider to be Too Much for the History GCSES trip to Dunkirk next autumn (and required the first installment just before Xmas too) but other than that...no. the only big expense is the school bus. :(

Maybe it's just ours then! I don't know anything at all really about any other grammar schools, but I was surprised when we got our request for money.

My ds hasn't been there long, but looking at some of the trips the older students go on, I don't think it will be long before the requests for trip money start.

Putting this in perspective, neither of ours have a scholarship, the combined school fees are: £34,000 per annum out of net income. If you can't afford to do it for all three, then I think you have to go with the grammar for the one who has got in. The grammar would be great for all of them I imagine but if one doesn't make it, you then have an option available if the the other local state options are not acceptable. You also still have options at 13 if it doesn't work out and all the while you are able to put money in the pot to pay for university fees and give them a real, overall head start.

Unfortunately local comprehensives are not great and as purits suggests the grammar school is super selective because anyone can apply regardless of how close to the school they live. I have heard (perhaps rumours) that children travel for more than 1.5 hours each way to go to this grammar school.

Is it Tiffin OP. PM me and I will give you a better low down.

If you don't want to pm me and if you are where I think you might be there is a huge amount of heave and move at 13 and again for 6th form. You could send save your beans and send her somewhere really exceptional for 6th form.

KitchenRoll our superselective asks for 'voluntary' donations too.

I agre with others who say go for the grammar in order to equalise all three children's chance of a top education. I know parents who openly say their daughter or their third child is not so bright when clearly that's rubbish, they just can't afford the fees. That's a really unfair thing to do and must put a lasting strain on sibling relationships.

If however, there's any way you could afford the fees with help, scholarships etc, for all three, then I'd go back, look at both schools and everything about them (including social mix) Choose the one you prefer. I think you 'know' like you know with houses and men when you chance upon the right one.

I don't think it is possible for anyone to really answer your question, OP, just because all grammar schools are not identical nor all private schools. Some grammar schools (eg my dd's) are very good at stretching the most able, providing a wide range of extra-curricular activities etc. Some are less so. Likewise, some top private schools provide a particularly high standard of education, others don't. All those arguing about 'grammar schools' or 'private schools' above are only basing their judgement on their knowledge of specific local schools. Without knowing the 2 specific schools you refer to, none of us can compare them and really give you a definitive answer.

As the mother of 3, with the eldest at grammar (private wasn't an option for us financially but i prefer state anyway), i would have been wary of giving eldest an education that I struggled to afford and couldn't offer the other two. As others have said, this will allow you to have the cash to pay for all the other activities/support for all 3 not only to benefit your eldest.

I think there are some valid generalisations that can be made about grammar v private though - whilst one can't generalise on the academic attainment, it is possible to generalise in some areas that may help to clarify your decision-making process. Firstly, grammar schools are comprised of people who get in on merit only not cash, so they tend to have a different social mix and different values. Your dd is less likely to be surrounded by kids entirely from v wealthy homes, so less likely to have huge pressure about living in the 'right' type of house, driving the 'right' car and crucially for teenagers, wearing the 'right' clothes (well, that may still happen, but the 'right clothes may be from Atop Shop, say, rather than Armani or something). I would hate to be the poorest child in a school. Plus the grammar school ethos matches my own personal politics better. Though if you are Tory you might feel right at home in the private school.

claig has a point, to a degree, in that I think private schools probably are slightly better at instilling confidence, and yes, more of your dd's friends there would be likely to be loaded and possibly useful connections in later life. But does that matter to you?

Other considerations - grammar schools do NOT charge fees of any descriptions and are not allowed to, contrary to what is stated above. They are allowed to ask for voluntary donations and they are just that - at my dd's school the head is always moaning that only 30% of parents pay the charge. Plus university admissions are probably similar for identical candidates - but top private schools probably push more of their pupils to apply for better unis in the first place, whereas at grammars the pupils are maybe less likely to apply (the confidence thing again? or different attitudes from the school or parents?).

So lots to consider - for an accurate answer you'd need to name the schools! Or better still, speak to as many parent/kid at these schools as possible and see what they think.

"Plus the grammar school ethos matches my own personal politics better. Though if you are Tory you might feel right at home in the private school."

Grammar schools are about meritocracy: you can't get more Tory than that!