Do I just ring up the Bursar, then?

[teaandthorazine]

I'm thinking of sitting ds (currently Yr 4) for a local indie.

However, to put it bluntly, I have no money. I'm a single parent, work in the NHS (and not a manager!) No savings (well, a couple of grand in an ISA), no assets, I rent don't own, no rich grandparents in failing health... The only chance I'd have of paying fees would be a lottery win.

I'm confident that ds has the ability to pass the exam (and hopefully pass it well) but I'm loath to put him through the stress of it all if there's no chance at all that he could go there. The school I'd like to apply for is well-known for being quite generous, but I really don't want to assume anything.

Shall I just ring and ask? Do I just say 'Hello, I'm poor, what are the chances?' (or words to that effect?!) Has anyone else done this and did you feel like a complete twat?

I'd start by seeing if they have a website and whether it states anything on there about scholarships/bursaries etc.

They do, and it does .

But I'm aware that you can't necessarily take what's on the website as gospel, and was just wondering if anyone had investigated personally, iyswim.

You have absolutely nothing to lose by picking up the phone. Perhaps start though with 'I think your school looks fab and my child would fit well...'

I would say go for it - ring and explain how wonderful the school looks and how interested you are and how well you think it would suit DS - and the what you have said, really. Then prepare to fill in the most intrusive form you have ever seen in your life.

However, I would start with the registrar to register your interest in the school and then talk to the bursar IIWY.

If he's spectacularly bright I would sit him for the exam first, and then negotiate your assistance from a position of strength.

Just make it fun for him, no stress. Make it a 'we want to see how well you are getting on and we're going to do some tests as this place' rather than 'let's see if you are good enough to go to this school' sort of thing.

From my own experience, selectives are always much less selective than you imagine them to be.

Good luck.

Well if he's very bright you may be able to get a combo of an assisted place/bursary (usually means-tested) and an academic scholarship (or music/sport/drama etc where applicable) and cover part or most of the fees that way? A couple of boys at DS' school are financed in this way and pay minimal fees.

However, bear in mind the extras that are never covered by bursaries etc - these include uniform (often more expensive at independent schools, esp. specific PE/Sports kits....), transport to/from school (school bus can be £150+ a term) and also lunches aren't subsidised at all (at DS' school they cost around £3 per day) and there will be loads of trips/holidays etc. At DS' school day trips are included in the fees, lunches aren't but it's worth checking exactly what is included in the basic fees as a starting point. Definitely worth calling the bursar to sound them out and see how flexible the school appears.

I would phone up then. You've nothing to lose.

Very good points about all the extras, of course.

I don't know that he's spectacularly bright but he is certainly well above average at school and capable (imo) of even more in the right environment. Top sets for maths and english, outgoing, switched-on, sporty etc.

I'll ring, then. Eeek.

Yes, I agree, first ring them. It might be worth asking how many bursaries they usually give out each year. Your DS may do well in the exam but not as well as the next boy who also wants a bursary.

It's worth a go as long as you can manage your DS's expectations.

Yes ring explain on the phone that you have looked at the school on its website/prospectus or open day and you were very impressed and in particular with .... You are convinced that your DS who is in the top set/table, plays ten instruments, is in the local famous football junior team would thrive at St X. But you would need financial assistance because you can only afford £1000 pa (or whatever) and have they or do they have a history of giving such large bursaries. If he falls of his chair or chokes on his coffee forget it. Explain that you are not asking him to commit himself but that you just don't want to waste the schools time, your time or raise your DS's hope if it is a non starter.
Beware many schools make very grand claims on their website but in reality don't deliver the goods. Finally the bigger the more famous and the more expensive the school is the more money they have and thus are more likely to have a big bursary pot. Many e.g. St Pauls Boys are very committed to open access to all who meet its entry criteria but also bursaries are harder to get at primary school level.

We rang before putting ds1's name down. (Didn't want to have to pay the exorbitant fee for registering if he didn't have a hope.) The bursar gave us a ton of paperwork to fill in to prove we were broke and then said on the basis of that we would probably be ok but couldn't promise anything as it depended on the governors and the outcome of the entrance exam. As it happened he got a bursary and a scholarship

I am similar in circumstances to you OP and wanted to try bursary route for dd. She has always been very able and labelled "gifted" and all the rest of it. When year 5 came her brilliant teacher kept on and on about trying to get dd into one of our local indies. Head knew about this and told me he would get a letter written up, which helps apparently. Anyway, one school's open day was coming up, where on that day i would have to registar for dd's entrance exam etc. I phoned up the school and asked about booking a place for open day etc and mentioned about the bursary scheme. I was then asked what school dd was currently at. Told woman (bursar) on phone the name of dd's school and she sounded horrified. It was a state primary. She said that bursaries were only available to children who are already at fee paying schools who may have fallen on hard times etc. I explained that it never mentioned that on school website and that it said it is for children who would otherwise not be able to join XX and that dd's sats were already level 5 by year 5 and that they wanted level 5 in year 6. I also asked that if dd took the test and she got higher marks than children from other indies would she get in. Answer no because these other children take priority. BUT dd could take the test if she wanted to "just to see how she would get on" so i declined. I hope you have better luck but do not be put off by my experience. It just annoys me that there are so many 100% bursaries available for "bright" children and that ALL extras would also have been paid for (food, uniform and music lessons) at the schools around here and felt that my dd was being left behind. In the end she wasn't bothered about it. Her head teacher was raging and wanted to try everything to get dd in but i said not to bother after a while. Dd now 12 and still working hard and getting good targets (7s and 8s) so am now worried too much. Good luck with everyones children.

What a sad story it's awful this has happened and it makes me cross. As I've already said many make grandiose claims on their web sites but in this financially difficult time there is more pressure on limited funds although state school children should not be excluded and the charity commission would not support this.
Reiterating what I said try the very famous they've often got deeper pockets; wealthy current parents and wealthy old pupils.

what a horrid school, ibizagirl - I would say that you and your DD have had a lucky escape, on the whole. DC's school has children come in from the state sector and go on to the state sector (school is 2 - 13) and I think/hope that everyone would be horrified to hear an attitude like that.

It's schools like that which give fuel to the argument for removing charitable status from schools - they are not giving back to the local community at all, IMHO.

OP - one of the things which a quick chat with the bursar will tell you is what the school's attitudes are like. If they seem snobby and closed like the school which ibizagirl describes then walk away and try another school - they are definitely not all like that.

OP I have a friend who did exactly what you're proposing and pulled it off for both her kids. In her case her kids have a very specific talent applicable to the school, so it's worth checking out the Indie you're considering and pitching your case accordingly.

Good luck. Worry about the extras later.

I think you're looking at it from the wrong point of view - i.e. how good the school would be for your child. To be blunt the school would probably be good for most children - and a school that makes it money from charging fees is obviously going to want children whose parents can pay!

You have to think how good your child would be for the school. What value-added can your child offer the school that a fee-paying child is unlikely to be able to offer.

Could I add a note of caution, if you are thinking about MrsJAlfredPrufrock's advice?

Schools do not have bottomless kitties for bursaries. They also have to administer the scheme, which usually involves a committee sitting to decide who gets how much. For them to make the decisions, they need completed and validated declarations of income/assets, which take time to process.

If you approach the school for assistance only after offers, you risk rebuff because you miss the boat and that year's funds have already been earmarked for known applicants.

Edith, afaik for this school one fills out the bursary form on application, before the exam is taken. All parents get a bursary form in the application pack - obviously then it's up to you if you feel you are in a position to fill it out or not. But I will double check!

ibizagirl - that's an awful story. Glad to hear your dd is doing well now anyway.

titchy - yep, good point. Will have a think about ds's 'value-added' talents

Wow - I am shocked by Ibizagirl's post, I have certainly never heard of any school refusing bursary applicants because they came from state schools - if anything, most of them seem to particularly welcome state school applicants.

Are you sure it wasn't that they prioritised children already at that school who had fallen on hard times? Which would be more understandable, to give them continuity of education. But giving priority to children moving from other private schools who couldn't afford the fees any more seems very odd indeed. They should be on the same footing as children coming from any other school.

Or maybe you just were unlucky to encounter a very unusual and snobby school.

tandt... - I am in the same position as you, single parent, etc etc.

I wasn't planning on sending DS to a private school as I know I couldn't afford the fees without assistance but the limited choices for other schools wasn't brilliant and this was a fall back choice - and one that did work for us

I went to have a look around the school, had a meeting with the Head and asked for advice re the bursary. I filled in the paperwork and DS was offered a full bursary. His entrance test results were in the top 5% and this along with what he must have said in his interview helped in the school offering him a place and the bursary. It does sound so easy written down here but I know in reality it's not.

The fees are all paid and although the uniform isn't cheap it isn't much more than those of the state schools around here. There hasn't been any trips this year (Yr 7) although I know there will be as he moves up, set lunches are £1.80 per day and they can take in a packed lunch (many do). There are of course extras as OP's have mentioned but DS didn't want to learn to play an instrument etc and all the clubs are held during lunch times and don't cost anything.

If you think that it's the right environment for your DS give it a go.

teaandthorazine - Go for it and don't feel like a twat!

I look at it from this point of view. Many Independent schools are given special tax status as charities but to get this status they have to give out bursaries to allow children from poorer families to attend that school - and they get to pick the children they want for the bursaries. It's not a purely charitable gesture on the school's part - it's something they have to do.

I'm a single parent on a low income and my daughter was lucky enough to get a bursary for an independent school. Every time I hear someone make a disparaging comment about single parents or read an article about how our children are going to be disadvantaged by coming from single parent families, I think of my daughter going to the 'posh' school and beam like the Cheshire cat!!

Well, I rang. Was really nervous - how ridiculous is that?!

Got through to the Bursar's office, spoke to a nice woman who was very clear that they get LOADS of bursary applications and that most people fit the criteria (the income limit goes up to £70,000 p.a. ), so it also depends heavily on how well one's beloved child does in the exam and how much they want them. Which is fair enough, of course!

You fill out the application form and tick a box to say you'd be interested in financial assistance - they send you the form, dc sits the exam, they award the bursary (or not) at the same time they offer a place (or not!)

From what she said it's absolutely normal for parents to ask for assistance, and a bit more digging on the website shows that over 50% of boys are on some kind of financial leg-up.

So, worth a try I guess. I feel slightly better that it's such a common thing to do, and slightly worse in that I don't want to put too much pressure on ds...

Thats great news. You could hold off on telling your ds about the nitty gritty bits about assistance being linked to scores on the test if you are worried that would put too much pressure on him. What is crucial though is that you state what your child can offer the school. They are, after all investing in him so it is in their interests to spend their other parents money wisely.

A woman we used to know went to her school of choice and told them how much they wanted her son. When they examined him, they found she was right. Free place, and then for his brother a few years later.

Admittedly, they were phenomenally bright children.

And she was a very persuasive woman.

Thats great news! Wish i had done a bit more for my dd now and sometimes i do feel guilty when she says school work is boring and simple. Good luck with everything and best wishes to you both.