numbers of applications to London private school - why so many?

[LetsEscape]

This year's numbers of children applying at 11+ to independent London schools has gone through the roof. Has anyone got any theories?

London is very very international. People are here because they are well educated and have well paid jobs. They want their own children to go to internationally recognised universities either here or overseas.

Whatever the domestic reputation of the University of Salford or wherever, it is really just Ivy League, London or Oxbridge that cut it, with the odd European, Australian or Canadian University thrown in.

Once the grammars are excluded most state schools in London don't deliver at this level.

People may also be here because, post-Arab Spring etc, London has become not just a place to have a pied de terre and to visit but to have your family home and to educate your children. Think Abramovich.

In DDs main out of school activity in Central London she has worked out that only 10% of her peers have two British parents and virtually all are privately educated. Similarly both DC have friends whose mothers have few links to the UK but whose fathers travel massively. If you get your children into a good London school you might as well be based here as in Dubai, Hong Kong or wherever. Fluent English is the bonus. IB is then popular for those heading abroad for University.

It is no coincidence that house price rises in Central London show no sign of abating. People are still coming in. Their children still need to be educated.

I am not sure the extent to which growing up in such a cosmopolitan area affects the children's sense of being British. I assume like many, they see themselves as Londoners first and British second. I like the way that my son's school really promotes school trips within the UK. I think the assumption is that pupils will have been all over the place, but probably not to Wales or the Yorkshire Dales.

Seeing the youth unemployment levels I think more about indie possibility for DD, which I never considered before. My mediocre state school and trash correspondence-course uni is no longer an option which could put a person in comfortable employment.

Anne there may be a more straight forward Reason why surbiton popular and that is fees- the fees are less per term than other day schools in area yet it's still a good school.

Yet isn't meant to be dismissive - just that I think if you have a choice of school a and b that are similar and school a costs anything between 1-2 k less per term you might like a better.

Re Surbiton also - it's a good school and takes the girls of whom there are many who don't quite make the criteria for spgs, leh, phs, whs. The catchment is also vast. Mid Surrey into Fulham

I have no problem believing that the numbers boarding is declining but the total numbers boarding nationally are I believe only 1% and they cant all live in London so I don't think it can have that much impact.
As an ex. londoner what surprises me on the rare occasions I go back is how every square inch of what used to be empty land has houses built on it. More people = more need for school places if you can afford a house in london you're unlikely to be on £20 000 a year.

agree that it's a combination of London being a little bubble of wealth in the recession - many people seem unaffected by the recession here (I moved here from another town where it was a very different story) and also the high numbers of rich foreign people.

state schools are very over subscribed too, so maybe there is just a very high number of children in this year's intake.

Even in tough economic times education is seen as a worthwhile investment. Many families (especially ethnic minorities but clearly not exclusively) see job prospects getting tougher for their kids and assume that that means they need better education and to work harder a school, not to assume that they will be jobless and so "it's not worth doing anything".

I live in London and DS1 will go to boarding school at 13 ( currently year 7). From my experience of taxi driving to and from pre tests at boarding schools this year and last, the numbers sitting these tests is up, not down as you might expect, given the economic environment. This has been confirmed by the schools too. They are all schools within 1.5 hrs of London. However the numbers sitting London day school tests still far exceed those doing boarding. Maybe there are lots of children sitting lots of pre tests/exams both day and boarding to see what they end up with when the process is over..... Then they will decide and free up places for others?

I wonder if the numbers might drop next year. It looks like many state schools are bringing their 11 plus test dates forward in order to provide the results by Oct 31. If this is the case, then fewer children may need the backup of private next year.

There is also Gove's proposal to allow existing grammars to expand. Not sure if that will pass as I have read that Labour are trying to stop it happening.

Despite the recession, the wealthy are still wealthy. A drop in earnings and a hike in tax still leaves enough for school fees. Their numbers remain static.

I think the increase in applications in our area (just outside London) is be driven by many first time buyers of private ed, who are really pushing the boat out to pay the fees. These are parents who are looking forwards and seeing some very difficult times for their DC. High cost of living and few jobs. More comeptition for the best paid jobs from abroad.
They're going to do everything in ther power to ensure their own DC stay in the game. Going to a good day school is seen as part of that and statistically that's proven to be correct in the past.

I've heard from DS's Headmaster that it really is down to the expense of boarding. He said he's seeing boys from the preps who have older DCs at boarding schools but the parents can't afford a 2nd or 3rd child to board. Eton, Harrow and Winchester's loss is his gain.
The influx of foreigners may make a difference in some schools but not seeing many Russians in the super selectives.

milkshake3 the numbers applying to boarding school may be up but many of these children are coming from abroad not just the obvious places China India Russia but other places as well. At my DS's full boarding school which is selective many are from China etc. But I have close contact with a less selective full boarding school, who will give help with language difficulties, and there are a surprising number of 13 year olds from Western Europe including Germany and Italy where I think we assume education is of high standard. Speaking to the staff the other day they were saying that this is a fairly recent change in the last 4-5 years.

horsemadmom there are lots of Chinese in the super selective.

I live in London and i'm not yet at the stage to seriously worry about my kids education.

DS will go to school this year to a local primary with a good OFSTED report but i'm filled with horror at the state of secondary education. Bearing in mind that most schools in London are massively oversubscribed, a good number of my friends have only been given a 3rd choice school, I think a large number of people in this situation will choose to go private.

I will either look to massively tighten our belts and send them to private school or re-locate to an area outside London with a cheaper standard of living and any profit from our London house sale can go towards their education. Mine and DH's jobs are not necessarily London based so we have this option

I agree with wealthy still being able to afford school fees but surely they always made up the core of a lot of pupils going to these schools. Think the point baking addict makes about concern about state of schools /places is probably more in it.
Although there is something in the good school to help you have a head start mentality I think that has always been there with a lot of parents - not sure it completely explains boost in numbers as it might be more explicit now (eg recession, issues re uni places) but was a phenomenon alive and kicking 20 odd years ago when I was at school.

A lot of Millennium babies are in yr 6. All schools are feeling the pressure of numbers.

And it's exacerbated in London because there are very few good secondaries. So if you know application numbers are high for them and the alternatives are the "over my dead body" schools, I wouldn't be surprised if more parents are looking to the private sector.

DS1 is in superselective and there are quite a few Russians....

I'm just on the edge of this (have a dc in Y5 an ind school in London) and think it may be a combination of several things:

If you are moving into this 'zone' (ie 11+ applications for independent schools) I think it always looks worse/harder etc. I don't think anyone has ever said "thank god I'm in this position, there is so much less competition than last year"

Private schooling seems to have held up v well in the face of the recression. I'm not sure if it is because everyone is ultra wealthy in London, or more because private schooling is the last thing to go. My DC's head (London prep) told me that they have seen v little fall out at all, although what they did sometimes see as a trend - and this was just an observation, they don't pry, obviously - was fees being paid by different people, she surmised grandparents, godparents etc. So that "pool" is not diminishing in the recession as you would intuitively think it might be. The pool could be being swelled by the number of people refocussing from boarding to day. In my area, if you looked across the wide range of options available then the London day schools are probably the "better" choice anyway, and harder to get into, so I'm not sure I agree that people are "downgrading" to day schools.

Unfortunately, and again I'm speaking for my specific area, the state schools do not seem to be getting any better. So I don't think you are getting people thinking, well we'll drop out of an independent primary into a state secondary. The continuing trend seems to be state primary to private secondary.

I thought that late 2000 was a boom year, numbers wise. My nephew is in that cohort and my SIL reports that they have been caught out at every level - from unable to get into tumbletots onwards. i suspect that is a large part of it.

Out of interest, does anyone have concrete (inside?) data on the increase in applicants at these day schools this year? The problem is that every school you talk to, even the less selective ones, likes to imply that they have "a record number of applicants this year" but you do have to factor in the fact that a private school is a business and part of its job is to create demand - and it's human nature to want something more once we know that it's in high demand. I remember being told exactly the same thing at exactly the same schools when my DS1 applied 2 years ago.

I have 2 children at Indi London day schools, child 3 will follow soon.
So expensive but worth every penny. Ds was failing at his supposedly outstanding primary. 30 in class, and totally ignored, near to bottom in everything. This year he is taking 12 Gcse;s expected A's and B's in all subjects. The largest class has 18 students, smallest group has 9 (Latin) DD doing just as well. If I could afford to move my 9 year old from state primary today I would without hesitation. He will have to wait until 11.
Many state Primary's employ young cheap inexperienced teachers, the national curriculum covers no more than the basics, There is a massive difference between the educational levels of prep school kids and state primary kids, that's why many parents tutor their kids like crazy to get them in to a decent Indie, the competition is tough.

stillfeel you ask your friends who are governors and will spill the beans or you chat to the admissions officer .

And frankly, you can tell by the numbers of bums on seats. If the years are all full and there is a waiting list...voila. If they increase the intake as many schools have that is also another fairly weighty piece of evidence.

Interesting debate. Certainly the numbers registered at each of the Indys DD has sat for in West London this Jan are reported to show a 10% rise on last year. I think this may be a combination of the so called Millenium baby boom but also that each child is probably sitting for more schools, either to increase chances to get a scholarship somewhere or just plain desperation to be sure of netting a decent school in an area with just a very few, heavily oversubscribed grammars. When we went through this nightmare 2 years ago with DS, we only "did" 3 schools but, thinking we were too naive last time, we are doing 4 with DD, even though there are more girls schools so arguably more places overall.

I would still be interested to hear from parents with dds in other London junior schools. I absolutely agree with points made that Surbiton is run of the mill school for local girls, which is why the huge increase in numbers at the junior school mystifies me. They did start gauranteeing 11+ places at the senior school a few years back, so avoiding the stress of that may be contributing.
But, LEH does the same so I would now expect parents to be queueing to get in there. Again, historically they had places available through the junior years, has that changed as well?