Govt & Politics v Latin v Eng Lit

[MrsJAlfredPrufrock]

DS2 is choosing his A level subjects. He's decided on Maths, Physics and Economics but is struggling to pin down his 4th choice. He hasn't yet decided exactly what he wants to study at university so he's trying not to rule anything out. He definitely doesn't want to be a doctor or do anything lab-based. He feels he'll want to do either straight economics, economics with politics, international relations or poss physics and philosophy. He's just not sure.

Can someone with experience of govt & politics please tell me what it's like as an A level? Is it well regarded by the top universities?

It is quite well regarded but I'd go for Latin or Eng Lit to give breadth tbh, unless he knows he's applying for, say, PPE, politics or IR.

I did some of the govt and politics lessons in 6th form (I had a free then ) and it was very interesting but definitely counted as a '4th' subject by my school so not to be taken on to A-level.

Back in the day when dinosaurs walked the earth and we all went to bed at sundown.....I was choosing between history, English lit and politics for my 3rd A'level and remember the teachers (all in same department) saying that unless you are going to do politics at university it could be considered a bit bolshy (literally speaking).

I opted for history in the end, and then have spent the next 20+years wishing I'd done English because it would have gone much better!

I did a govt/politics option at university and loved it though!

If your DC is mathematical Latin may be a good option. Certainly it appeals to the logical.

I did both English Lit and Govt & Politics albeit about 20 years ago. I loved the latter and got an A which helped me get a place to do read law at a Russell Group Uni, but I was very interested in politics. I understand that Govt & Politics is not particularly highly regarded these days (it is on the list) but I think in combination with Maths, Physics etc he would not have a problem. I would have a look at the admission criteria for the courses and universtities he is interested in and see if they favour one or the other. English Lit is well regarded everywhere and Latin or a modern language as well.

If he's capable of doing well at English, as well as the other subjects, that would demonstrate real breadth and give him an advantage over scientific people who can't communicate as well and are less confident writers. Latin would be quite interesting. I suppose I see politics more as an option that can be taken up at university. Has he considered history? That gives good essay-writing skills and provides a useful backdrop to present day politics.

Just checked my daughter's school website. They recommend further mathematics A' level for Economics in addition to maths. They also have a list of subjects which the Russell Group recommend as facilitating (i.e. which are helpful for a lot of courses).

These subjects are
? Mathematics, Further Mathematics
? Biology, Chemistry, Physics
? English Literature
? History
? Geography
? Languages (Classical and Modern)

I would urge you to look at the uni entry criteria, the school aren't always best placed to give advice. My daughter chose her A levels recently. I contacted an admissions tutor as my daughter was told she had to do maths for entry to medicine by the school and was emphatically told this was not the case.

I'd definitely agree that he should be checking with universities, first by looking at the prospectuses then, if clarification is needed, for example about whether subjects are really equally regarded, or some are preferred, others just acceptable, writing to them.

Agree with the list Kensingtonia posted.

I have to say that his proposed combination of choices look somewhat odd. Maths and Physics is fine but he needs to add Further Maths and another science to that if he wants to go down the science/medicine route at uni.

If he wants to go down the economics route then choosing Govt & Politics will not help him. Generally he will need another numercial/science subject and then possibly English Lit or Latin will be OK.

He really needs to work out what he wants to do at uni and make sure he does the right combination of A levels. Why are schools so rubbish at advising on this issue? Its not rocket science.

I would get hold of uni prospectuses he might be aiming for and make sure he does thw right combination of subjects.

i teach economics at uni. The problem with subjects like politics, economics and sociology at A level is that they require a different mind set, you need to learn to think about things in a new way, the modular structure of A level is just not well suited to this so the analysis is just (imho) a bit thin and descciptive so you learn just what economists say about unemployment rather than how to use economic analysis of unemployment - does this make sense. Thus your ds would be better doing something like history or latin (if he is going into the social sciences) or further maths (if something like physics and philosophy is a possible option).

I would rather teach someone in my first year who had done physics, maths and history, than physics, economics and history for example!

MoreBeta - You're wrong. Medicine would require Chem and in most cases biology. In any case I've already said he's ruled out medicine and biological sciences.

Thank you all. There are some good points, things we haven't thought of/didn't know. It's especially difficult when you haven't decided what you want to do at university/become later in life.

His Morrisby Test came out with Lawyer, economist, actuary, journalist, accountant - his abilities are very evenly split across arts and sciences and Ithink he's decided to go more with sciences with one contrasting subject.

We have read the RG choices booklet and also checked the Trinity List

Witch - thank you. That is a worry. I'm confused as to why Economics features on the Trinity List of most acceptable arts A levels. Looking at A level subj combinations for successful applicants to Oxbridge, LSE and Warwick for straight Economics, most successful students had Economics at
A level. It's so confusing.

Have you looked at the syllabuses in detail? For example, DS was considering doing Eng Lit but when we looked at the texts he would be studying it put him off. They were all very girly books and I know that he should rise above it but to spend two years studying something you don't really like identify with or like is a big ask.

You said that he was considering top universities so that means he needs top grades. FWIW, this webpage gives details of A Levels results. If you click on the first EXCEL link and go to table 2 it says that the percentage of students getting A or A* was:
English 23.1
Govt &P 35.1
Classics 39.4
overall 26.9
Of course you don't know why they is such a difference - is it the sort of student that the subject attracts, is there more individual attention in Classics because the classes are smaller, etc - but there is quite a difference.
Is similar information available for your school? Can you see that one department is stronger than another?

Senua - Thank you very much. I'll go away and study his school's exam results in detail. Although it's difficult to know whether it's the quality of the cohort or the quality of the teaching.

I would argue in favour of Latin to add breadth, it's well regarded as a "serious" academic subject, he won't easily have the opportunity to study it again at that level and is absolutely brilliant fun! (OK, so the last of these might be a bit subjective...)

MrsJ I think it is very hard for boys like yours because of the embarrassment of choice. I know, I know, poor didums...but they're bright, their options are very open (seemingly limitless) and that can be a difficult starting point if one doesn't have a buring passion for somegting specific.

Hard to suddenly narrow everything down.

What do school say?

Fetchez - Thank you.

Wordfactory - yes it's really hard. School v much leave them to decide but they must get a min of grade A and pref A in the subject or an allied subject at IGCSE/GCSE in order to be allowed to take it on to A Level. He already has the A in Maths IGCSE and is predicted A in all his other subjs except German for which he's predicted an A. Interestingly, or perhaps not, he would rather like to keep going with German but he's put off by the risk of not getting an A/A at a level because that would scupper his chances. Depressing that universities are such grade whores.

May be worth his having a chat with the Head of German. Ofetn the skill set brought into play at A level is different to GCSE. My play to his strengths?

But yes, one needs those string of good grades. Sigh.

The girls I know who are going to Stabs at sixth form (is your lad ready for that. One is beeeutiful!!!) were told A in subject of choice, plus three more A/As. I'm assuming this must include Eng and maths.
Tough competition.

DS1 took the same 3 A2s and went on to do a BSc Economics in one of the top ten universities for economics. If your DS is serious about studying economics and might want to take the mathematical options he would probably benefit from studying even more Maths at AS Level. BTW DS1 and his class at school found A Level Economics pretty easy!

Wordfactory - six A grades at GCSE and no grade lower than B is what they quote going into the sixth form as an external applicant, but in reality you have to have a large number of A* at GCSE to be in with a shout - and certainly in your 4 chosen subjects.

Lilymaid - Ah interesting. Did your son do further Maths to AS as well? - that's the other possibility he discussed

DS could have taken Additional Maths at AS but didn't (did History as his serious 4th AS, Music Technology as his just for fun 5th AS). His teachers thought he might find Further Maths through to A2 a bit too much for his abilities. He's just got a distinction in his MSc Economics which involved some fiercesome Maths (verified by DH!)

Lily Thanks for that. Interesting. If your son has already graduated in an MSc it has likely changed in the intervening 5 years though, no?

I think the AS course was Further Maths AS (so long ago now) which they take over 2 years. The statistics modules would be of particular use. He also took the Additional Maths freestanding course in Y11 as he had taken GCSE Maths in Y10.

Lilymaid - likewise. DS2 did Maths last year and is now doing a FSMQ to keep his Maths skills fresh until sixth form. DS1 did additional Maths which is just another GCSE - not sure why they othered really.

Ahh. He seems to have solved the problem himself and has this evening come home and said he think he'll do Maths, Physics, Economics and Further Maths. It doesn't give him a contrasting subject but it does seem to keep open most things he might want to do.