My hope for dd going to grammar school

[Sarem]

is that she Won't feel embarrassed for being clever anymore, that she won't be called weird or a clever clogs anymore for working hard and doing well. Am I deluded?

Don't think you are deluded OP.My ds is now in year 8 at a Grammar.It is super selective.My sheer relief is due to the fact that he can be himself and not be called swot etc,There are still issues re the odd scuffle with other boys but not to do with being clever etc.

My dd was much happier at her selective grammar school because she was no longer teased for working hard

Has she got a place? Just asking because DD was totally labelled a swot but did not make the Grammar. However, her Comp was SO huge (10 form intake) that by year 8 she was in sets for everything and had made a whole range of new friends that she is still in touch with from Uni.

DS goes to a Grammar though and loves it. However, there a still a load there who do the bare minimum which must be very frustrating when the teachers know what they are capable of.

I'm clearly in a tiny minority here but I honestly can't recall any of my DC being teased for being bright. They didn't wear it on their sleeve though or make a big deal out of work (in fact I don't think any worked particularly hard at primary school, it wasn't an option). I was tolerably bright too in my time (in that I was awarded two direct grant scholarships in Y6 and was always top of the class at that stage) and never ever got teased. It must be about how you demonstrate cleverness to the outside world.

Grammars are full of clever kids who wear their learning lightly as well as the geeky types (for want of a better term). But it's true that the latter are unlikely to be teased for that attribute alone.

Has she just taken the test and passed, OP?

She passed in October. I kind of object to The implication that my dd is to blame. She is the kind of girl who is eager to please the teacher as well as working hard and always trying her best. So she gets teased for not playing up in lessons, for wanting do a bit extra in group work, for wanting to do the work instead of trying to avoid wherever possible. Hardly her fault I think.

No, of course your DD isn't to blame - its a terrible shame when children who want to do their best are discouraged by others. Some kids are luckier either with their peers not having that negativity, or (somehow) in how they deal with them. Anyway, I'd be optimistic your DD will be happier when she moves on.

I'm just amazed that a child would be shunned for being bright and working reasonably well. What kind of school must she be in? Are you in an unusual area or am I simply naive? She sounds victimised from your OP, which is horrendous. I can't for a moment imagine that she is to blame.

I went to an all girls Grammar School. There was still teasing and mild bullying going on, though it wasn't about being clever. Teacher's Pets never go down that well imho and most good teachers would address this early on.

FWIW, I have a very bright younger child. I am very hot on her not "showing off" about it. I do think whilst we praise our kids for doing well, they should not be feeling all superior to their schoolfriends who maybe are not finding it so easy. It's a bit like the "I'm alright" money thread tonight. There are important social skills to be learnt here. It is a great opportunity.

Well it really depends on your dd ime... My son is at a grammar and as settled in beautifully. He is very academic but also sporty and has good social skills. Since sept he's been made house sports captain and has won prizes for being in the top two in his house. His best friend on the other hand hasn't had it so good. He,s quite geeky and also vocal. His social skills aren't so strong. There is bullying in grammar schools, they pick on the same kids that would be picked on in any situation. Now I don,t know your dd but be honest with yourself,. If she has poor social skills, or is a braggart, then the chances are she,ll find socialising hard and you should spend time working on these skills with her.

Exactly pantofino , you put it much better than I do.

Well you both put it better than me. Clever doesn't = better.

Ingles, no you are quite right. Bullies will pick up on any weakness, they are good at this as THEY tend to be the ones with low self esteem so they recognise it instantly. Self confidence and self esteem are just as important as acadamic nouse imho.

Also - the ones who find it easy at Primary are NOT necessarily the ones who do best later. If you learn to try harder earlier on, then that can reap better rewards later.

If a child isn't popular or doesn't have friends does that mean that they are bullied?

No

'It must be about how you present your cleverness to the outside world.'
How exactly does a 10/11 yo present their cleverness?
I was streets ahead of most of my peers at that age (having moved, age 7, to a relatively deprived area compared to where we'd lived previously).

I didn't have the guile or the wherewithall to 'present' my cleverness in any way - I just quite liked learning, occasionally answered teachers' questions and came first or second in the rare tests we were given. I had no idea I was clever, until the jeers of 'brainbox' started to fall on my ears in the playground (and, believe me, I'm no Einstein - it didn't take much brainpower at all to get these neanderthals' dander up).

Same in secondary school; I was shy and socially awkward, although I did eventually get a few friends. All you had to do in that school to be despised was do the set homework, and again maybe answer the odd question in class. God forbid you ever asked a question, or joined in a teacher's attempt to instigate a discussion.

Neither was I a teacher's pet - not pretty or sporty and shy to boot - ironically, the only time I remember prizes being given out, my prettier, more popular friends got the prizes for achievement, when my exam scores averaged out at top for the year.

I envy you that you've never come across such a situation yourself, Yellowstone, but I assure you those attitudes do exist, and it is naive at best to suggest a bullied child may be at fault for their 'presentation.'

Op, my two older DCs are at grammar schools, and their school lives thankfully seem to be light years away from mine. DS2 will be going in September, and I'm convinced he'll thrive once there.

Sorry, that was a massive rant and I've just realised things moved on while I was firing it off writing it . I appreciate no one really thinks the OP's DD 'deserves' the bullying; I feel for anyone in her position and, just as others are incredulous such schools and attitudes exist, I find it hard to imagine never having come across anything like it. < Brung up rough >

Well obviously I didn't intend to imply that it would be a conscious thing WhatsWrong, but if parents pass on to their kids that they must be the cleverest thing since sliced bread and they then pass that on....problem?

Pantofino's line with her DD seems to me to be exactly right.

Oops, cross posted again.

Whatswrong - I really feel for you - as it sounds like you were just in the wrong school for you! I am so glad that your dc are doing better.

Out of interest - what was your school? Sec Modern, comprehensive etc?

< sniffs >
Oh, I'm okay. 'twas a comp, Panto - but only recently changed from sec mod. In a pretty rough area and lots of clueless teachers.

Dd is quiet and shy and certainly not vocal. She is at a normal state primary. Are you all seriously telling me that at your children's schools this sort of yhing never goes on? And I definitely make sure she doesnt flaunt her cleverness. One problem is I tjink that she is not sporty at all - and that is what you need to be to be respected.

In my experience the clever children who have a tough time at school are often the ones who for whatever reason are seen as "siding" withe the teacher rather than the other children. This is, sadly, often, but not exclusively, the brighter ones. It's a teacher's job to deal with this - but often they don't. And this sort of "teacher pleasing " behaviour happens at all schools-including grammars!

Sarem, yes: I find Y6's calling a peer 'weird' to her face very extreme. I have quite a bit of experience too.

WhatsWrong your experience sounds miserable :( - but I was really focussing on primary school kids, where the attitude surprises me more.

If she's very quiet Sarem it could be that your dd is being perceived as aloof by her peers, or too good for them. I would concentrate now on building her social skills and self confidence, being empathetic, and understanding of others will stand her in good stead. Speak to her yr6 teacher and ask if thy can encourage her group social skills and even her leadership skills in class. Two years ago Ds1 was really lacking in self confidence and didn't speak in a group at all. We and his primary school spent a lot of time working on this and he's gone into yr 7 a completely different child. Cleverness is not usually the problem iykwim it's the social skills or lack of, that go with it.