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Original poster

Should I complain?

30 replies

FridgeRaider · 01/12/2011 13:56

Just had a text from DD at school to say she feels sick because she has just had a cooking lesson where her teacher (who's also her form tutor) forced her to make something where she had to touch raw meat. We are vegetarian, teacher knows this.

I am really cross about this, because having been vegetarian all my life, I know it would make me feel very sick too.

When I was at school (nineties) I was allowed to not participate physically if the lesson involved handling meat, or if in Science, the lesson involved cutting up parts of dead animals.

First point of complaint is to the teacher/form tutor, or to year head if complaint is about that teacher. So should I complain? Or am I and my DD being precious?

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Kez100 · 01/12/2011 14:02

I'd not go at it as a complaint. I'd ask them their policy on this and then, once you have got it, check with your daughter that it wasn't followed and ask for it to be adhered to in the future.

I imagine from your post that your daughter is safe and well (apart from feeling a bit iffy over the meat), so I can't see any full on complaint is necessary.

Alos, I am surprised she was involved with cooking meat and didn't know - we have to take ingredients in, so would have known beforehand what the dish was. Does her schol do it differently?

exexpat · 01/12/2011 14:02

I would complain (I'm vegetarian too). Would they force Muslim or Jewish students to handle pork?

Unless this is a GCSE class which she has opted to take and cooking with meat is an essential part of the course, in which case this situation should have been discussed earlier.

Original poster
FridgeRaider · 01/12/2011 14:12

Kez100 Yes, she has to take in ingredients to cook once a fortnight. On the alternate weeks the teacher provides ingredients, they cook in groups and then taste/assess the results. This is one of those weeks. Had it been the week where she takes her own ingredients, we would of course have been able to substitute the meat for something else. I will check out school policy on this as you have suggested.

exexpat Thank you. That was my thinking too. It's not as though she's a fickle teen who has suddenly decided she wants to be vegetarian. She has been a vegetarian from birth, as have I. It's not GCSE, she's year 8.

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marriedandwreathedinholly · 01/12/2011 15:07

If she's been a vegetarian since birth it is not a decision she has made it is a decision you have made for her. I think she should be learning to cook with meat, she may one day decide she would like to eat it or that she would like to prepare it for people who are not vegetarians.

I think it sounds exceedingly precious to say touching a piece of meat makes you feel sick and am quite sure your daughter has picked up this from you. The teacher has not asked her to do something that breaches Health & Safety, that is illegal or that could cause her harm in any way. If it is a cookery lesson she is being taught to cook a variety of foods. You have absolutely nothing to complain about or to criticise.

LouiseInLondon · 01/12/2011 15:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

Original poster
FridgeRaider · 01/12/2011 15:44

marriedandwreathedinholly that is one of the most ignorant responses I have ever read. But thanks for your input.
"If she's been a vegetarian since birth it is not a decision she has made it is a decision you have made for her."
Well yes, obviously, because as you clearly missed me saying it above, I have been vegetarian since birth, my whole family are vegetarian too, therefore, why on earth would I bring her up as a meat eater when I don't even know how to cook it myself?? I have never once needed to know how to cook it, and never wanted to.
"I think it sounds exceedingly precious to say touching a piece of meat makes you feel sick and am quite sure your daughter has picked up this from you."
No she hasn't. My husband eats meat and it is not a problem for me.

LouiseInLondon Thank you for breaking your habit Grin and for your suggestion.

FGS it is food tech, not that important in the grand scheme of things but I am really cross about it. My DD has had her principles and wishes completely disregarded and disrespected. At 13 she is a competent vegetarian cook, she does not need (or want!) to learn how to cook meat. My DH eats meat - if she ever wants to learn he will teach her.

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Original poster
FridgeRaider · 01/12/2011 15:47

Meant to add - DD is now home from school. She tried to reason with the teacher, but the teacher said it didn't matter that she is vegetarian and that she HAD to do it. My DD felt humiliated in front of her classmates and did it because she was scared of the consequences if she didn't do as she was told. She usually has a good relationship with this teacher.

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slavetofilofax · 01/12/2011 17:29

Married's post is spot on, and not at all ignorant.

Schools should encourage children to do things that they are not encouraged to do at home. Your child is not a clone of you, and there is every chance she may decide to try meat at some point, or will marry a meat eater and want to at least make him a ham sandwich.

Original poster
FridgeRaider · 01/12/2011 18:07

slavetofilofax I agree they should be encouraged to do things at school that they are not encouraged to do at home, but this is our way of life, our deeply-held beliefs and principles.

You're right, she is not a clone of me. But I have also never tried to turn her into one. She is a teenager, she thinks for herself and I am proud of that. Honestly, she is more against meat-eating than even I am! So to say she may want to try meat at some point is correct but highly unlikely. After all, I have never eaten meat and never wanted to, who's to say she won't be the same?

As for marrying a meat-eater - well I did, and he has never once expected me to prepare anything meaty for him - why would he? This isn't the 1950s, he does not expect me to bring him sandwiches...he respects my family's values.

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marriedandwreathedinholly · 01/12/2011 18:45

Just because you disagree with me, there is no need to call me ignorant. My post was not ignorant it simply did not concur with your views. FWIW I think it's a little sad that you don't appear to regard your DH as "family". "I have been a vegetarian since birth, my whole family are vegetarian too". My husband eats meat and it is not a problem for me. Hmm.

corlan · 01/12/2011 18:54

I think some of the comments that have been made here are incredibly ignorant. To a lot of vegetarians 'meat is murder' and when they look at a piece of meat they see dead flesh, not something tasty that they can put in a stir-fry.

I would absolutely complain to the school. I work in a school myself and would be shocked at such an ignorant attitude from the food tech teacher. Complain to the Headteacher and ask for an assurance that this will not happen again.

fuzzysnout · 01/12/2011 19:11

I work in education and spend much of my time despairing at things that people feel necessary to complain about.

However in this case YANBU. This is completely unacceptable. Complain to the head in writing. Horrid beahviour that should not be happening in schools in this day & age.

exexpat · 01/12/2011 20:51

Can I ask those who say that the teacher was right to force her to handle meat, what would you say if the dish they were preparing included pork, and Jewish or Muslim children were forced to handle it? Or if a Hindu child was forced to handle beef? Would you also say, well, they might want to eat bacon/beefburgers when they are adults, so they should try it now?

"Schools should encourage children to do things that they are not encouraged to do at home." Really? Even if it goes against their principles or their religion?

I am vegetarian, and was married to/living with a meat-eater for 18 years, and never once cooked meat or handled it. To me, meat is dead animals and I definitely would not want to touch it.

My DCs are being brought up vegetarian, though they are now at an age (13 and 9 respectively) where if they decided they wanted to eat meat, I would not stop them (but would not cook it for them).

However, both have strong feelings about animal welfare and meat being a cruel and unnecessary foodstuff. At the moment neither of them is doing cookery at school, but if/when they do, the school will be told that they are vegetarian, and I would be horrified if they were forced to cook meat.

Original poster
FridgeRaider · 01/12/2011 21:01

Married Sorry, perhaps not ignorant, maybe more...misguided? Narrow-minded? And as you can see from some of the other responses, I am not the only one who said you were being ignorant.
Of course I regard my DH as "family". I simply meant my whole family as in me, my siblings, my parents, my aunts and uncles. He is from a meat-eating family. But I suspect you're just after an argument and that's not why I posted. I do appreciate others have different views to my own and I think on this thread we will have to agree to disagree.

corlan and fuzzysnout Your answers, coming from people who work in schools, have really assured me that I'm not being precious over this. Thank you both. My first thought was that it was a bit 'backward'. When I was at the same school, 20 years ago, I was the only vegetarian there but it was never questioned and I was never expected to handle meat or dissect anything. I know for a fact there are many vegetarians at the school now so was astonished really!

I have emailed DD's year head to make an informal complaint. He has replied, full of apologies and called it "a very regrettable situation". He is going to speak to the teacher involved in the morning. I felt he really took it seriously and I am pleased with his response.

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Original poster
FridgeRaider · 01/12/2011 21:02

exexpat I think I love you Grin

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happygardening · 01/12/2011 21:13

exexpat I'm sorry to have to break this too you but meat is dead animals! FridgeRaider I do it eat meat but agree that this is a very unfortunate episode but before you go on all guns blazing I would try a speak to either the teacher involved or your DD form teacher enquiring what happened. Why don't you start off by giving the teacher the benefit of the doubt maybe she just forgot or misunderstood the situation. I would try and resolve it amicably at the same time ensuring it doesn't happen again.

Original poster
FridgeRaider · 01/12/2011 21:40

happygardening Thanks for your agreement. However, as posted above, an informal complaint has already been made. I didn't go in all guns blazing (although was tempted!), I kept it polite and to the point. The year head has replied to my email and was incredibly apologetic. The teacher involved IS my DD's form teacher, so I followed the school's own complaints procedure and took it to the year head, correctly.
The teacher is a lovely woman, I made it clear to the year head that I didn't want her crucified, just that I thought she had made a mistake in her actions, and he will be talking to her in the morning.

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exexpat · 01/12/2011 21:43

Fridgeraider (blushes bashfully) glad to hear the head of year is more sympathetic, and I hope your DD won't be put in that position again.

happygardening yes, exactly - dead animals like finding a dead squirrel in your garden or a squashed cat in the road - how would you feel about picking those up and handling them? Let along chopping them up in a kitchen?

MindtheGappp · 01/12/2011 22:47

FTR, Muslims do not really have much of a problem handling pork. They just don't eat it.

When we do heart dissections in Biology, no one has any problem with pigs' hearts (and I do ask each class afresh each year). The vegetarian children cope fine too. No one in the class, carnivores or otherwise, see what they are cutting up as 'food'. Obviously, this wouldn't be the case in Home Ec.

Original poster
FridgeRaider · 02/12/2011 10:12

Morning MindtheGappp
Way back when I was in a Biology lesson which involved dissecting a pig's heart, and another that involved dissecting a sheep's eyeball, I didn't see it as cutting up 'food' either. Of course not, in a Biology class, it is cutting up a dead animal's organ.
I am vegetarian and do not wish to handle parts of dead animals, whether it be for food or otherwise. My DD doesn't wish to either and the school has assured me that she will not have to in future.
I'm assuming you're a teacher here, sorry if I'm wrong, but just because you have never encountered a vegetarian student that is bothered by this, that doesn't mean there are no vegetarians who would be bothered.
Not having a go, just not entirely sure what point you were trying to make.

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coccyx · 02/12/2011 10:26

Stupid to say you have inflicted your choice to be a vegetarianism on your DD, no one says we have inflicted being a carnivore on our children!
We do what we think or believe is the right thing for our family. Good for you sticking to your principles.
I would not allow my child to go to a zoo trip . Was told it would be marked as absent. Rubbish , I sent her in and school had to provide a day of schooling for her.
Don't be a walk over or follow the sheep

Original poster
FridgeRaider · 02/12/2011 10:34

Grin Thank you coccyx Grin

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gramercy · 02/12/2011 12:57

OP, this was your initial post: "So should I complain? Or am I and my DD being precious?"

But then you got incredibly shirty when some people thought you were being a bit OTT. So why post at all? What a waste of time.

Original poster
FridgeRaider · 02/12/2011 15:00

Hi gramercy Just read back through the thread and I only got shirty with one person and later apologised for calling her ignorant. Two people that I can see thought I was being OTT, the rest either agreed I should make a complaint or at the very least, talk to the school.
"So why post at all? What a waste of time." I don't see it as a waste of time, I got some helpful answers and suggestions, which is exactly why I posted. Your post on the other hand....if you didn't want to answer my question, why post at all?

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gettingalifenow · 02/12/2011 15:44

Perhaps only another vegetarian would agree with you but for those of us who aren't veggies, I'd say its not a religion and it doesnt need the same approach as a musim or jewish child would be entitled to expect to receive. Nor is it a health issue as she's not allergic.

I'd advise you let it go but help your DD to learn to cope with what is a perfectly normal activity for the vast majority of the population.