Can you get into medicine with "just" 3 A levels?

[silver73]

One of my DC wants to apply for medicine but hates their fourth choice of A level - too late to change and wants to give it up. DC is wants to continue with geography, biology and chemistry. DC has lots of relevant work experience and 12 GCSEs - 10 A/A and 2 B. Got A/A in all the sciences, maths, two languages, both English lit and lang, geog and history...

st Johns and Hospital work, excellent..... work experience can be really difficult to get.

Good idea also, trial run of UKCAT - can I be crass enough to ask what score with no prep? Prep for the real thing! The higher it is, the better, and it is possible to improve the score by a good margin.

If DC is determined, should be able to make up the lost ground in maths, a tutor is probably a good idea if you can afford it, as many medical schools will not accept re-sits (a few do), for serious illness they might.

IME it can be tough for academically very able DC when they realise they can't just cruise through anymore, and need to actually study!

My DD is now a 2nd yr medic; she took 4 and dropped one after AS (A* but didn't continue it as wanted to concentrate on the tough ones for A2) She did Math, Chem and Bio at A2 and at times the maths was hideous.. but she persevered (and got her place at med school)

She found the transition to A level a shock as she cruised thro GCSE. Her sister is now A2 and she too found it a shock ... A levels are a lot tougher than GCSE and a LOT of students think they can coast it only to get shocks when they do their AS levels:(

Incidentally my DD2 was ill for nearly 6 months last year with Glandular Fever and she ended up dropping an AS as she couldn't catch up.. we also employed a tutor to get her up to speed with one of her other subjects and it has been well worth the cost..she is now totally back on track and is doing the round of interviews for Uni...

The competition for medicine is ridiculous, but it's not JUST about the grades .. with excellent GSCEs your DS has a good start for applying (some Uni's deselect on those before they even look at A levels) and the work experience sounds fab... if he gets his head down and works his ass off this year he will be in a great place to apply (and then he just has to write a blinder of a personal statement:D)

Good luck to him.. my DD1 is absolutely LOVING studying medicine!!!

Hi Thanks so much for the words of wisdom and encouragement. He got 620 in the UKCAT with doing 15 minutes prep in the car beforehand, getting there late and having been in a boiling hot car and very stressed about being late. I wanted him to do it so he was aware of how hard it is and that he has to treat it with respect and do some prep next year. It is seriously the only thing he has ever wanted to do so I am so fearful for him....

Ok, the Ukcat..... 620 is slightly below average..... The exam is set so that the average med school applicant will score 600, but in reality the last 2 or 3years, the average score has been around 626.
It' a reasonable score for no prep, but he needs to get it up as high as possible, med schools have cut offs, and at some these can be around 680, but around 640 more typical. Some have no cut off but the lower your score, the less likely you will get an interview.
I highly recommend the Ukcat 600 questions book, available from amazon, and if he practices every day for 20 min, for a month, he will improve a lot:)

UKCAT distributions for this year are on the Pearson's website here www.ukcat.ac.uk/pages/details.aspx?page=news In previous years you had to find their technical reports (pdf format) e.g. 2010 www.ukcat.ac.uk/pdf/UKCAT%202010%20Technical%20Report.pdf
and 2009 www.ukcat.ac.uk/pdf/UKCAT%202009%20Technical%20Report_abridged%20_3_.pdf

Originally the tests were standardised to 600 but oldmum42 is right that they have had higher averages in recent years, 619 this year. Your son's score of 620 actually puts him under the 50% percentile (so over half of applicants did better). Don't let him be disheartened by that, with this type of test performance for teenagers may improve with age. Also although Person's claim you can't improve the score reapplicants typically get higher scores, sometimes considerably higher. You will find people who say that their score improved by 70 points. Familiarity with the test and the knowledge that you need to click something each time, then work out the answer later, will undoubtably help. Some young people do better on the BMAT than the UKCAT.

Thestudentroom website has helpful and reasonably accurate advice about the extent to which universities rely on UKCAT or BMAT. Some (notably Birmingham, who like a lot of A* GSCE grades) don't bother with it and others don't seem to give it much weight. Check each year to see what has changed.

TSR also has good advice on work experience. The fact that your son has been doing St John's for many years will count in his favour. Schools like evidence of long term commitment.

sorry forgot to tick box - links again

www.ukcat.ac.uk/pages/details.aspx?page=news In previous years you had to find their technical reports (pdf format) e.g. 2010 www.ukcat.ac.uk/pdf/UKCAT%202010%20Technical%20Report.pdf
and 2009 www.ukcat.ac.uk/pdf/UKCAT%202009%20Technical%20Report_abridged%20_3_.pdf

The UKCAT is quite a bizarre entrance test especially one section looking for the odd one out from four patterns. The BMAT has questions from chem, biol, physics and maths supposedly from GCSE syllabus but hard questions. The prospectus may say they look at all factors on the ucas form but with when they have to reduce two to three thousand applicants down to a couple of hundred to interview then the first screen has to be something like number of A* at GCSE and the UKCAT/BMAT score.
I would disgree that maths more relevant that biology DD is glad of the biology knowledge now she is in first year medicine although for her course biology A grade is compulsory and the maths (statistics) is started from scratch.
BTW DD got rejected without interview at Keele which she found a bit surprising but is now at a traditional London medical school.

I know last year was super competetive but friend's teens struggled to get on courses (despite adequate qualifications) because they didn't have WORK EXPERIENCE!

Does any know if work as a qualified pool lifeguard counts as relevent work experrience as a lot of the training involves first aid

don't see why it shouldn't bruffin. But it would be good to do some other things too.

friends of DDs said school had suggested care home volunteering, as that showed you had experience of the grimmer side of medicine. But certainly, something longer term rather than "oops, what do I put in my PS".

Oxford: A-levels: AAA in three A-levels taken at one sitting

Excluding Critical Thinking and General Studies.
Candidates must have Chemistry (compulsory), plus Biology and/or Physics and/or Mathematics to full A-level.

Cambridge: Applicants must have passes at AS/A Level in three of Biology/Human Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics. One of the subjects must be Chemistry and at least one pass must be at A Level.

Most applicants for Medicine at Cambridge have at least three science/mathematics A Levels and some Colleges require this or ask for particular A Level subject(s). See individual College websites for details.

Although many Colleges consider applicants offering only two science/mathematics subjects at A Level, the success rate of such applicants is much lower. In the past three admissions rounds, 97 per cent of applicants for Medicine offered three or more science/mathematics A Levels and, of these, 22 per cent were successful in obtaining a place. Three per cent of applicants offered only two science/mathematics A Levels and of this small number only five per cent were successful in gaining a place.

I suspect the lifeguard work will probably have some grimmer side as well. They also have to look after the changing rooms and will involve cleaning up vomit etc.

Also he has another job working for a well known electrical store- so lots of working with the public and the odd difficult customer.

"the candidate had to stay calm in an emergency, deal with a difficult member of the public and lead/work in a team, which are all important skills." - all things he would be doing at St John's surely? Of course he isn't acquiring much useful medical knowledge but I've heard a new junior doctor claiming their first aid had taught them useful things.

"all things he would be doing at St John's surel?" Not sure what you mean

DS has qualified as a lifequard (NPLQ) and been offered a casual job at the local leisure centre. He is doing it because

a) he wants the money
b) he does really enjoy the first aid aspect
c) he does enjoy the swimming aspect

not necessarily in that order

he will also still get regular training

Does it matter that he gets paid for it, rather than volunteer?

At the medical school I work at, everyone with the required grades is in the first pile - that is it for academic selection. Much more important to have a part time job (especially if in a nursing home/ hospital bank staff etc. - lifeguard would cut it), hobbies and interests and shed loads of work experience across all types of medicine. Absolute worst thing he can do is copy, paste and make minor changes to any on-line recommended personal statements, we received more than 300 with almost identical statements, all rejected outright (was very specific, not just generic and boring: "When I was eight I burned a hole in my pyjamas with my junior chemistry set").

Each year we analyse the people who weren't up to scratch and adjust the intake accordingly - overwhelmingly it is people who were completely unable to juggle their new independent lives/ looking after themselves for the first time with doing the course. An extra A-level or not gives less indication of good time management and responsibility than having a job or real interest. If he doesn't get in this year, it is a really good idea to do a gap year working in an orphanage in a developing country, or something similar that combines independence with an interest in medicine.

bruffin I was commenting on the OPs son and his five years at St Johns, so some cross posting going on. Clinical experience is best if you can get it but you have to make the most of anything you have done by looking at the skills you've learnt there and how they match with what is needed in a doctor. Your lad should be trying to get into a hospital if possible, the studentroom wiki on work experience has helpful suggestions.

Just had a meeting with my son's teachers he is predicted 2 A* and 2 A at A level so this has boosted his confidence no end. What seemed to work was explaining to him that he now had to find ways of gaining understanding of concepts he found hard and use any resource that he could i.e. youtube and the Kahn Academy. This is alien to him as he has never had to do this before and luckily only seems to need to do it for one part of his maths A level and not mechanics or his other subjects.

We have also got him a tutor and managed to persuade him to do all his maths homework again to the required standard. It took him hours over the weekend but I think that psychologically this has helped him and his teacher has seen a huge improvement in his attitude in the last couple of weeks.

He is one of the youngest in the class and even though he looks very grown up I think that this was the first of possibly many wobbles on his journey.

His hospital experience was a week with occupational health doctors and nurses (too young for clinical work) and he does a trolley round the hospital wards and I think he will be able to spend a couple of days with a GP. In addition, he has 5 years St John's cadets and he teaches younger cadets at army cadets. Is army cadets seen as valuable? Certainly seems to help with team building and the skills he has learned is helping with his Gold D of E.

My DS was in the army cadets (CCF) and is now in his first year medical studies and enyoying it. Certainly CCF did no harm.

OP your son sounds a good candidate to me but I'm a parent not an interviewer. The army cadets will show stamina, ability to do other things than school work, team work - teaching is good too. It might provide an example of where he had to stay calm in an emergency. The clinical bit is not for what they learn, obviously that's very little, it's showing that they understand what medicine involves. Talking to patients in hospital beds over a prolonged period of trolley pushing could actually teach him a lot more than a week observing a surgeon, he just has to make the most of each opportunity to learn.

The CGP books are good for maths, just make sure you get the right one for his exam board.