Another A level choices thread!

[seeker]

dd has no idea what she wants to do, but her goal for the next few years is to read History at Oxford (nothing like aiming high )

She is thinking of doing History, either Government and Politics or English, Theatre Studies and Physics. Does this sound sensible? I've got this idea into my head that she should do a language, but she doesn't want to. Any thoughts anyone?

I'd heard for Russell Group definitely best to avoid any subjects with "studies" in the title.

A friend of mine who teaches Physics A Level says don't even think about taking Physics without taking Maths as well, because they're so integrated.

It's an unusual combination of subjects, which isn't necessarily a bad thing; but you need to be careful that they complement each other.

Have you read this?

DS is thinking of doing biology along with two humanities and a creative - I think it's good to have a mixture of subjects. However I would maybe reconcider either Government and Politics or Theatre Studies as they could both be seen as 'soft subjects'. Also agree that as maths and physics are so closely linked it is best to do both - a friend of mine who is a physics teacher said that because of this they are able to go at a faster pace and those not doing maths could get left behind.

Thanks, Roisin, that's a very helpful guide.

I read History at Cambridge, but A-levels were unfortunately 24 years ago, so do take with a pinch of salt. I took Hist, Eng lit and G&P myself.

If she wants to study History, I would urge her to think of each of her choices in that light as well as on its own merits.

I would defend her interest in Government and Politics - it's an excellent course, or was, and in my experience was not at all a soft subject. Is she interested in political history? What evidence can she offer of this? Does she like reading political memoirs/diaries/biographies? Is she a member of a political party? Has she visited the HofC? Has she looked into internships, visits or something like this to the European Parliament? is she a regular listener to the news, World at One, anything like that? Is she Roundhead or Cavalier? If she had to debate with either Gladstone or Disraeli, which one and why?

I am much more dubious about Theatre Studies. I hope I'm not automatically snobbish, but unless she has a passionate interest in theatrical history and can show evidence of this, I can't see the relevance of this subject to her university course. Could she not join a youth theatre in her own time instead? Or stage revivals of historical plays?

You are spot on about a language. I found my options at Cambridge severely limited because I had such poor language skills and therefore my ability to handle original sources was restricted. I felt unable to take anything from the medieval period backwards as I had such bad Latin, and couldn't do much modern European history because I had no German or Russian; 17th to 19th century very difficult due to poor French. Now, this may partly have been due to my inability to ask for help at Cambridge, but I think I was realistic in what I eventually studied (early modern British and 19th C American). It would have been nice to have more choice, really.

It's great that she wants to study physics. I personally would never stop anybody who wanted to study a science. I hope she continues with this. Some reading around the history of science before her interview may help. History of Science and Philosophy is a course that is a well-known seducer of scientists at Cambridge - not sure about Oxford.

We started the round of the 6th forms tonight and both schools have said, you need to do maths if you want to do physics.

Not always true, I think, Bruffin. If you want to do a physics degree you'd be mad not to have maths A level, but plenty of kids do physics to support a chemistry/biology combo (e.g. for medicine).

On Informed Choices (Russell University Group) They say good A levels for a history degree are:

Economics,
English Literature
Philosophy
Govt and Politics
RS
Sociology
Foreign Language.

I was just repeating what I was told last night by two schools. They both said those who do physics without maths usually really struggle.

Theatre studies sounds a bit soft. Sorry. Agree about the language being a good option.

If she is capable of getting the grades in a language she should definitely do one.The advice at out school is that a language at A or AS really distinguishes you from the crowd.

She is capable of a language- predicted A* in Spanish- but she really, really doesn't want to.

Her school doesn't do any GCSEs with " studies" in the name except theatre studies- they say that it's the only one they consider rigorous enough. I'm a bit worried that that doesn't seem to be a universal view. Sad that people don't seem to doing physics is a good idea- it seemed to me that it is then most "philosophical" science and I thought it went quite well with her arts based choices. Oh well, back to th drawing board!

Are you asking about GCSEs or A Levels? Assuming A Levels (nothing wrong with doing Theatre Studies at GCSE as long as she gets 9 or 10 A+ grades in academic subjects) she shoudl think abotu History, English Lit and Government & Politics to A2. Plus Threatre St. or Physics (really?!) to AS then drop.

Seeker, I am a lecturer in humanities (not History though) at an RG university, and I have to say I despair at the bias against Theatre Studies. It is so ill-informed. More broadly, the 'nothing with Studies in for the Russell Group' position is crass - a media fiction about the RG created by people who haven't noticed that there are departments of Theatre Studies, Film Studies, etc, at many RG universities.

AQA Theatre Studies A-level might currently involve working on Jacobean drama, Moliere, Chekhov, among other things - students have to learn about things like historical context and different modes of theatre practice as well as studying the plays themselves. Doesn't strike me as soft. Like Music, which also sometimes gets mentioned in this context, it is actually a very challenging A-level because it requires competence in a variety of very diverse activities.

You can't rule out the possibility that she could come up against an admissions tutor who shares the bias against Theatre Studies. But if her other A-levels are strong academic ones, it should be OK. And a language is a very good idea for History (a very good idea in general, of course, the lack of language skills among UK graduates is going to serve them badly in an increasingly international employment marketplace).

Anyway, it is all going to change a lot in the next few years as far as university admissions go, if numbers of applicants decline. We may be recruiting rather than selecting in future!

Thank you campersgirls- that's very reassuring. I'll carry on working on the languages issue! Can I hassle you further and ask what do you think of the physics idea? I'm biassed because I am excited at the thought of having physics going on in the house!

seeker DD2 is in her second year at Oxford reading History. She did History, English Lit and Art, with French to AS. She enjoyed French though. She hasn't been limited in her options so far and has done well in the mediaeval paper (a good First) despite never having done Latin, even at GCSE. In fact the mediaeval tutor has suggested she might like to specialise in his subject for her dissertation next year. At Oxford there's always the opportunity to get a grounding in a language for a particular option if it's thought necessary, they offer special classes, so there are very few bars. I'd have thought Physics was an excellent choice. Very rigorous, shows versatility too - ideal. I read repeatedly on MN that Maths is required, but DS1 is in Y13 doing it without having carried Maths on beyond GCSE and is doing fine (in that he's got 100% so far in all papers). He says the Maths students just have to do the Maths stuff twice, he doesn't see it as a issue at all.

I think encourage her do what she feels she'll most enjoy. If any university is tolerant of subject choice, it's Oxford. It's the next tier down which seem to care more. Most people would have advised that Art as the third A2 was a killer for Oxford but the tutors seemed genuinely interested in her Art and not dismissive at all.

I've cross-posted with campergirls and agree with the Theatre Studies thing, it's very much in the same category as Art.

Theatre Studies is not a soft option. Many good universities have Theatre Studies and related departments.

DD1 did physics at A level and she didn't do Maths. She did Physics. Chemistry, Biology and Art at AS then dropped art when she did A2's. She went in to do Zoology at Cardiff university which is a Russell group university.

From a humanities admissions tutor's p.o.v., a mix of science and arts subjects is great - Yellowstone is right about the combination of range and rigour being impressive. I can't comment on the maths/physics issue, way outside my competence!

The 'Informed Choices' doc Letchlady refers to is a very conservative, LCD thing - it basically says 'no RG selectors are likely to disapprove of these subjects'. Doesn't mean that we WILL disapprove of other subjects/combos though!

Trinity College, Cambridge, says this:

B lists A-levels we consider to be of more limited suitability:

LIST B
A-levels of More Limited Suitability

Archaeology (Arch & Anth)
Art & Design (Arts)
Business Studies (Economics)
Design & Technology (Architecture)
Drama/Theatre Studies (Arts)
Electronics (Engineering)
English Language (Arts)
Film Studies (Arts)
Government & Politics (Arts)
Law (Land Economy & Law)
Media Studies (Arts)
Psychology (Arts)
Sociology (Arts)

LIST C
A-levels Suitable Only As Fourth Subjects

Accounting
Applied Science
Citizenship
Communication Studies
Computing
Critical Thinking
Dance
Environmental Science
General Studies
Health & Social Care
Home Economics
ICT
Leisure Studies
Music Technology
Performance Studies
Performing Arts
Perspectives on Science
Photography
Physical Education
Science
Science for Public Understanding
Sports Studies
Travel & Tourism
World Development

Sorry, misremembered and thought your daughter was looking at Cambridge, but it was Oxford.

I would have thought Physics was a good choice - as it link well with the technical aspects of History e.g. radioactivity is linked to carbon dating in archaeology.
However it is usually linked with either another Science e.g. Chemistry or Maths. Chemical analysis can be used to help with restoration of historical relics for example. If she gets an A for GCSE Maths though this should be sufficient ability to cope with Physics, but as a Science teacher I can understand why some schools would ask for Maths.