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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Very sad about kids with no school

22 replies

Aliana · 08/11/2011 21:18

Hello, how are you all.

I am starting this post because I feel desperate and need to share my feelings with other moms.

I am a Mexican mom with 2 teens (13 and 15) and moved to England (Walsall) with my British husband more than 2 months ago. Though we knew we had missed the whole admissions process I never thought my kids wouldn't have a school by now.

We have contacted the schools directly but only one wanted to deal with us, the rest sent us to talk to the Council and there we got told we needed to contact SERCO, the ones responsible for out of time admissions. I must say we had to pressure them as they kept sending us back to talk directly to the schools! Finally we got the admission forms and after a while they offered places at Frank F Harrison but my mother in law and husband told me about the bad reputation the school had so we rejected it (plus I don't see my kids in an engineering school).

Now time keeps passing by and though SERCO says the kids are in waiting lists at the schools we picked and my son made a test to go into a waiting list for an academy, nothing really seems to be happening, no one seems to care enough and I am feeling extremely depressed to have dragged my kids into a completely new life with no school, no friends, no family :( I want to cry all the time...

Oh another issue is that my daughter is 15 and seems she can't study this year due to GCSE. I have asked if she can be put one year back but again, no one answers and no one cares.

Is there any solution to this or will they lose the year? They come from private schools but they were affordable, are private schools here for the rich only? Should I home school them or find them a tutor?

Please, any advice is welcome. Btw, they are attending Saturday drama lessons to help them socialize, etc.

Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
bogwobbit · 08/11/2011 21:22

I have absolutely no experience of the English system (being in Scotland) but the more I hear about it the more bizarre it seems. Surely there is a duty to offer your children a place in a school.
I'm sure someone will be able to advise you on what to do but you have my sympathies. Hope things get sorted soon.

newgirl · 08/11/2011 21:22

I think start them in the school they had space in and keep them on waiting lists for other schools. They will need home schooling otherwise else will really fall behind.

newgirl · 08/11/2011 21:23

Btw poster was offered places in school - the family didnt like the school.

allagory · 08/11/2011 21:39

Yes, agreed Take the places offer. Stay on the waiting list for something better. It may have a bad reputation but if your kids are bright and keen they may more attention and encouragement from the teachers than in a higher performing school.

We don't really re-do years in this country like they do in the States and elsewhere. If you don't pass your GCSE's you go to college and re-do them there

cory · 08/11/2011 23:14

The local authority has an obligation to offer you a school; they do not have an obligation to offer you exactly the school you want. As far as they are concerned they have fulfilled their obligation. The next move is up to you.

If I were you I would find out more about this offered school than just its reputation which (unless your MIL is actually teaching there now) could be years out of date and/or not reliable.

What is this about an engineering school anyway? You do realise that all state secondaries have to offer the National Curriculum, so having Engineering in its title won't mean they don't teach the ordinary subjects that you get into university on? it just means they have extra facilities for teaching a speciality. Dd attends a Business and Technology College and she is hoping to go on to read History or English Literature at university; her school experience is not in any way diminished by the fact that the school has a few extra teacher for teaching business and tourism to those students who happen to be interested.

The best bet would be to try to get into this school that has a space but stay on the waiting list for your preferred school. The second best move might be to home-school but stay on the waiting list.

Appuskidu · 08/11/2011 23:34

Your children have been offered a school-what an odd title for a post?!

Start them at this school and ask them your questions. The school won't be teaching them engineering 7 hours each day, it is just their specialism.

musicmadness · 09/11/2011 06:15

I grew up near Walsall. TBH unless it has changed radically there are not many good schools in the area full stop.
Not the entire picture but this will help you see the academics.
www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2011/jan/11/walsall-gcse-alevel-tables
Both Queen Mary's are grammars and basically have no movement from Y7-Y11. That would be 6th form entry only (and then only with v good gcses as girls/boys already in the school get priority as long as they meet entrance requirements).
A couple of others (definitely Hydesville) are fee paying.
Frank F has always had a bad rep but TBH so have some of the others and I know some of the "better" schools in the area have massive problems with violence.
Remember the exam results aren't anything and in general some of these schools are drawing from a very deprived area and are trying to get GCSE results out of a fair number of pupils entering the school unable to read or write properly.
Several schools in the area also have a high number of pupils entering (sometimes Y10-11 time) who do not speak english at all.

If you look at the "value added" scores Frank F is actually second in the borough, which means they are doing well with improving children's scores compared to where they were upon entering the school.
I think Frank F is merging with Sneyd (other very badly performing school in the area) soon so the standard might go up as I'm guessing a lot of resources will be targeted at them.
Honestly your best bet is to accept the places at Frank F and then go on the waiting lists for others if you are really unhappy. Walsall council has offered you a place, they do not have to offer you the place you want and the children's services in Walsall are run by a private company so they are not going to run around chasing up other places when they don't have to!

EdithWeston · 09/11/2011 07:37

The LA has fulfilled its legal obligations by offering you a place.

They do not have a duty to find more places because you turned that place down. So there is nothing you can expect now from LA except a properly run waiting list. There is no guarantee that a place will become available at a school you would find acceptable.

So either you go back an accept the offered place; or you consider home education; or you look into private schooling. I realise these aren't an encouraging set of options, but I can't think of anything else.

prh47bridge · 09/11/2011 10:48

The schools were correct to send you to the LA. The schools are not allowed to offer you places. That can only be done by the LA.

As others have said, the LA has fulfilled its obligations by offering you a place. I'm sorry you weren't happy with the places offered but the LA is not under any obligation to find another place for your child. They will, as they have said, put you on the waiting list for your preferred schools but there is no guarantee that will produce a place as you are dependent on other children leaving. Also the fact that your children are not currently in school does not give you any priority on the waiting list, so there may be other children ahead of yours.

You have the right to appeal for your preferred schools. You should have been told about that at the time you received the offer. Saying you don't like the offered school is a very weak case for appeal and nothing else you have said gives me any reason to believe there are grounds for a successful appeal. However, it may be worth a try. You would need to show why your children's education would suffer if they don't go to your preferred school. Talking about exam results and the bad reputation of the offered school will not help you. Instead you would need to look for things the preferred school can offer your children which are not present in the offered school. If you do choose to appeal I would regard it as a long shot but you never know.

Your only other options are to accept the offered place, home educate or send your children to an independent (fee paying) school.

It is your responsibility to ensure your children receive an appropriate education, not the LA's. You need to sort this out, not wait for the LA to come up with a place at a school you like.

Kez100 · 09/11/2011 11:37

Lots of parents are currently sending their childen to a school which they did not choose as their preference.

HappyCamel · 09/11/2011 11:43

Agree with the other posters. They have been offered a place, with free education that's how it works. Schools are often over subscribed and local children who applied in time will have been disappointed too.

Yes there is private schooling, if you want to choose a school. You'll need to phone round the local ones (google maps is good for finding them) and get quotes.

Good luck. It sounds like you've had a bit of a culture shock.

Aliana · 09/11/2011 11:52

Yes, I know I probably won't get the school I want and to start with, I don't have favourites! but I heard there was violence not too long ago there and some pupils destroyed parts of the place. Maybe many of you would send their kids there but I wouldn't.

Thanks anyway.

OP posts:
Kez100 · 09/11/2011 12:15

Of course we wouldn't choose to. We'd apply in the correct timeframe and do everything we could not to have to go there. However, in reality, some parents get allocated that school (and others just as bad) and, if they have no grounds for appeal, no ability to home educate and no money to pay for independant schooling, they have no choice.

DunRovin · 09/11/2011 13:06

Aliana, I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time.
Getting children into schools mid year is difficult of course because schools cannot keep places free in case someone arrives, not when there are waiting lists of people wanting a place!

Places do become available and the best way to make sure you are at the top of the waiting list for one of the schools you would like is to live as close to it as possible. Schools waiting lists are not like bus queues, they don't take the person who was on the list first, they take the person on the list who is top of their admissions priority. So you need to know what priorities the schools have, and see if you can meet them.

Also, do not be put off schools by what you hear second hand. People can spread a bad reputation of a school on the basis of one incident and without understanding the whole context. Visit the school you have been offered a place in, talk to the teachers, the Head and some pupils.

Would you be eligible for a Catholic or other faith school?

Yes, private schools are expensive and the vast majority of the UK population go to state schools. And today on MN there is a report of armed police at a private school. One incident of violence a while ago tells you nothing about a school, or about the peaceful majority of it's pupils.

I would definitely send my child to a school where there was a place, and get myself into a good position to get a place in a preferred school as soon as possible. You may need to move close to a school you prefer, though.

Good luck, it must be very bewildering.

prh47bridge · 09/11/2011 13:59

I would check your facts carefully. I have looked through the archives of the Express & Star and the Birmingham Mail and the only story I can find is about two men burgling the school and causing damage. That kind of thing can happen at any school.

I'm not saying the incident you describe definitely didn't happen but I would check. I know how easy it is for a story like this to get out with little or no basis in fact.

For what it is worth, the latest Ofsted report says that behaviour has improved significantly since their last report.

cory · 09/11/2011 15:54

Extract from the recent (5 July 2011) Ofsted report about the Frank F Harrison Engineering College in Walsall:

"Frank F Harrisons overall effectiveness is satisfactory and improving. The headteacher has systematically and determinedly tackled a wide range of weaknesses and endemic low expectations. From the outset she has motivated, supported and challenged staff to implement change rapidly on a broad front. She clearly communicates her high expectations both to staff and to students. In this drive for change, she has been well supported by the carefully targeted work of a dedicated senior leadership team, which has grown significantly in its effectiveness since the previous inspection. Middle leaders provide energetic support and challenge to their teams, and creatively adapt whole-school initiatives to work well in their subjects. The staff have risen to the challenge of improving all aspects of the colleges work, to good effect. The governing body is a well led and committed group which has made a positive contribution to the colleges improvement. Leaders have an accurate understanding of the colleges effectiveness and the steps needed to improve further. The combination of these factors demonstrates that the college has a good capacity to improve further.

Teaching has improved significantly. It is satisfactory overall, with a growing proportion that is securely good. The innovative spectrum of success, a way of explaining levels and progress to students, has had a particularly good impact on creating a clear focus on learning and achievement for all. As a result of the improved teaching, assessment and curriculum, students achievement is accelerating and their attainment is improving. Where teachers take time to talk to students about their learning and the levels that they are aiming for, which happens increasingly often, this helps their understanding, their motivation and their ability to assess their own learning. Many students still lack the confidence and the vocabulary to discuss their work, though this is improving week by week. The college is aware that weak literacy skills remain a barrier to learning for many students. It has begun to develop a range of appropriate strategies to deal with this and to develop literacy skills across the curriculum. The use of assessment information is being used increasingly well to plan lessons that meet the needs of the range of learners, though there is still an occasional mismatch. The improved accuracy of assessment has enabled the college to set up a comprehensive database which is well placed to allow staff to notice more quickly any underachievement and to tackle it decisively.

The college has systematically and effectively implemented a range of measures to improve students behaviour. The very large majority of students are responding positively to the improved teaching, and many behave consistently well. A few show inconsistent patterns of behaviour, behaving well in one lesson and less so in another, although this number has decreased dramatically. Sometimes this variation relates to staffs expectations and confidence, and the college is aware that supporting some staff to manage behaviour more effectively remains a priority. During the inspection, many students emphasised to inspectors how much behaviour had improved, how they were now able to learn without interruption, and how much they enjoy their many interesting lessons. This significant improvement has been greatly assisted by the firm emphasis on high expectations, supported by the colleges code of conduct, though this is not yet entirely consistent across the school. The wide-ranging new systems of praise and rewards are already having a significant impact on students motivation and behaviour. A small number of students have identified behavioural difficulties and find it challenging to cope with the standard school day. The college has successfully adapted the curriculum and support for the majority of these students and recognises the need to extend these strategies further.

Care, guidance and support are strengths of the college. The college provides students with a wide range of support to meet their individual needs, and this is a key factor in improving their academic outcomes as well as their well-being. Students appreciate the level of individual attention they receive from staff. The colleges relentless focus on tackling poor attendance has successfully reduced the number of students who are persistently absent. Attendance is still low but many students are starting to understand and act upon the need to attend college every day in order to achieve. Senior leaders and staff fully appreciate the need to ensure that improving attendance remains a high priority.

The overall effectiveness of the sixth form is satisfactory and improving. Sixth form students are benefiting from the improved provision and ethos evident in the rest of the college, and enjoying their learning more as a result."

In other words, this is a school that has had problems but is now improving under an efficient headteacher and has been moved out of Special Measures.

So speaking personally I would probably be quite happy to send my child there.

As for the engineering bit, it is as I suspected: this is an ordinary secondary school which has added to its title to indicate that it also has a speciality (which schools like to do as a selling point)- not some kind of vocational school.

PotteringAlong · 09/11/2011 16:05

Having a friend who teaches at Frank F and who raves about a) the new head b) how much it has improved in the last few years c) how nice most of the kids are and d) how much she enjoys working there I think you were mad to turn it down! As others have said, with Queen Mary's, Walsall essentially still operates a grammar school system and they will have been filled long ago. If you don't apply at the right time you're not in a position to turn down a school and, I promise you, read the above extract from ofsted, you could end up somewhere far, far worse.

activate · 09/11/2011 16:09

Who advised you to reject a school? That seems very foolish to me

Get your kids in a school then look to transfer

gosh

sospanfach · 09/11/2011 16:12

Frank F is still not very good, no (I am from Walsalll) but as Pottering says, vastly improved. Surely better than nothing? It would give them a routine and you could then stay on the waiting list for something better?

Peachy · 09/11/2011 16:14

In fairness, OP is new to country and if I moved somewhere I probably would go on family advice just to get by.

OP- can you reconsider that school, given the info here? On my won experience a previously bad school on way up is MUCH better than good school on way down!

sospanfach · 09/11/2011 16:16

Also OP, do not worry about its being an 'engineering college' - that is its speciality but it does not follow that your children would be expected to follow a path of choices geared towards any kind of engineering career.

Blu · 10/11/2011 11:01

Is the OP still here? Maybe someone should PM her and tell her there is more specific knowledge on the thread since she seemed to say 'thanks' and leave.

It must feel v daunting to be in her position.

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